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Discussion Starter #1
Hi Guys,

I am completely new to EVs, but definitely getting one in the next few weeks on finance.

I will either get the 40kw Leaf or the 50 kw Zoe.

I wanted to know if there are any services in the UK that can upgrade OR recondition the batteries when they get out of warranty?

I know if I bought a Nissan, the battery would still have a tonne of warranty cover left and around 90000 miles too, so this is more about long term ownership.

How much would it cost to recondition a 40 KW battery, or upgrade it for more range? What's the thermal issues with the leaf batteries, iis it really an issue?

Finally, could I buy a 24 or 30 KW leaf and just upgrade the battery? is there someone in the UK who does this?

I can't find any company or person who does this and am led to believe that only Nissan will do it.

Thank you for your support!
 

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At the moment it's not economically viable to refurbish the batteries of old EVs as a new car is a more economic proposition. Instead, as range reduces they are sold from the people who want to have the capability of doing high daily mileages to those with ambitions to go shorter distances.
If you were buying a new ICE would you be looking into the cost of replacing the engine? Presumably any such analysis would be based on a bloke down the pub saying he rebuilt the engine of his Cortina for £100 rather than discovering that a replacement engine for a Mini is around £6,000 (yes, really). Would you bother replacing the engine in a 10 year old Mini at that cost? And all of that is before you get onto the subject of how much power an ICE loses as it ages and how its emissions go through the roof.
So EVs do age but remain very useable. We have two 6 year old LEAF24 and both have over 85% of their original range left and suit our needs, 15k and 12k miles per year respectively for myself and my Wife. Neither has the range of a LEAF40.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thank you and very informative.

How have you kept the batteries in such good health?

I was looking at a 2 year old Leaf 40 which had lost 7 percent in just 2 years. I know that you are apparently meant to quick charge rarely if at all and keep charge between 25 - 75%?

Is this true?

Apparently there is someone on here that reconditions some batteries and I messaged him.
 

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2016 Nissan LEAF SL
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Thank you and very informative.

How have you kept the batteries in such good health?

I was looking at a 2 year old Leaf 40 which had lost 7 percent in just 2 years. I know that you are apparently meant to quick charge rarely if at all and keep charge between 25 - 75%?

Is this true?

Apparently there is someone on here that reconditions some batteries and I messaged him.
Yes, there are companies who will do battery replacements or refurbishments. It’s not a problem if there not being the people to do this work, it’s that it’s crazy expensive to do so. As far as I’m aware you can even stick a 60kWh battery in the later, UK built 1st gen. LEAFs but it’s just the cost that puts many off.

The big things to remember in a LEAF are to not let the batteries get too hot (new models simply slow down rapid charge speeds A LOT when it’s hot and you try to do multiple rapid charge sessions in a row) and not to leave your car sitting for long periods of time with a totally full, or totally discharged battery. For the most part batteries will look after themselves though, and you shouldn’t worry too much.

Battery degradation isn’t constant and steady. You typically get a drop like what you’re talking about with this 7% on the model you’ve looked at, but then it should slow down a fair bit as it ages. With that said, the Nissan LEAF is one of the worst cars by far when it comes to degradation. One of the reasons is the lack of thermal management with no cooling for the battery pack.

I know you said you’re between a LEAF and Zoe, but have you looked into the Hyundai Ioniq at all? They are generally one of the highly respected EVs in the community where you very rarely hear complaints about degradation, plus they are one of the most efficient vehicles too, meaning you can drive further on a single charge with it. If you can find availability, and the price is right (neither can be guaranteed with these cars) it would probably be my recommendation.

Failing that, I’d probably be going with a Zoe if it’s big enough for your needs. You may be able to save a bit of money and go for a nearly new ZE40 (Q90 If you want 43kW AC Rapid charging, R90/R110 if you’re fine with maximum 22kW AC instead. Look for ‘i’ models if you don’t want a battery lease) since it sounds like 40kWh is enough for you anyways, given the fact that you’re looking at a LEAF with the same battery.
 

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Thank you and very informative.

How have you kept the batteries in such good health?

I was looking at a 2 year old Leaf 40 which had lost 7 percent in just 2 years. I know that you are apparently meant to quick charge rarely if at all and keep charge between 25 - 75%?

Is this true?

Apparently there is someone on here that reconditions some batteries and I messaged him.
You can rapid charge an EV all you like just not one like the leaf without thermal management. My old zoe was exclusively rapid charged and only lost 7% in 3 years

my model X also lost very little range over the last couple years, that’s super charged at least x3 a month.

I would go for a ZE50 over a leaf any day it has much better range and tech. The older zoe is very dated inside now
 

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If you were buying a new ICE would you be looking into the cost of replacing the engine? Presumably any such analysis would be based on a bloke down the pub saying he rebuilt the engine of his Cortina for £100 rather than discovering that a replacement engine for a Mini is around £6,000 (yes, really). Would you bother replacing the engine in a 10 year old Mini at that cost? And all of that is before you get onto the subject of how much power an ICE loses as it ages and how its emissions go through the roof.
So EVs do age but remain very useable. We have two 6 year old LEAF24 and both have over 85% of their original range left and suit our needs, 15k and 12k miles per year respectively for myself and my Wife. Neither has the range of a LEAF40.
The Mini engine is so costly as they don't make them any more, so decent blocks are getting harder and harder to find if you want a rebuilt one. But £6k is still more than a standard replacement would cost. I've got basically the same engine in my Midget. I did look at spending £2k on a refurbished engine from a decent builder. But then I found you can buy a secondhand MG/Rover with a decent K-series engine for a few hundred pounds, extract the engine and sell the remainder of the car for parts for a similar price. I know the K-series has a bad rap, but they sorted it out after the initial problems - they were fitted to Freelanders for many years. So I'm fitting an engine with at least double horsepower that cost next to nothing. And if it goes wrong, I can get another replacement for virtually nothing. 👍

Our 2015 22kW ZOE has now done over 45k miles, but the summer and winter ranges are the same as when we bought it 2½ years ago. In fact they're better, as our's had the range-sapping BMS before the update. Last time I checked, the SOH was mid-90s 👍
 

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FYI the cost of £6k was for a 2007 Mini Cooper, and included fitting at a BMW Mini stealer. I appreciate that you can do it for less, particularly on older tech and with lower hourly costs, but it was comparing it to a Nissan stealer replacing the traction battery.
 

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Hey - I thought this might help explain the Leaf SoH a little, unfortunately my data is in it's infancy, but it can help see how the Leaf battery health changed for me so far. This is a '20 Leaf e+ 62kWh:

Leaf SOH.png

I've tried to capture what's most useful here. I don't feel doing the SoH over time is helpful. In my case that would be since Mid-Feb '20 when I took delivery. I've decided to do it over the total mileage / odometer.

The blue being the total kW delivered to the car over those miles, and the orange shows the average kWh delivered during those charging sessions - therefore those peaks are rapid charges. In my case it seems either the warmer UK weather, or recent rapid charges have affected the SoH more.
It could also be because of a change of driving habits. Where the car was mainly doing motorway commutes of >100 miles before the COVID lockdown (at 2868 miles) this has now changed to much shorter journeys.

So the current shedding of SoH is a little difficult to pin point exactly, but I do expect it to level out again as the graph is starting to show. As for rapid charging, I might have the odd session going forward, but would not be normal. The recent trend is using GeniePoint's free key worker charging - mainly to build confidence in rapid charging with my wife.
 
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