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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Wow

So the US Konas are not getting battery heating and only a 5.5Kw resistive heater for cabin heating (No Heatpump)

Comparing resitive to Heatpump our old i3 used a resistive heater and would burn through about 4kw/h with the heating at 21c in winter Compared to the Kona which burns through about 1.5kw/h from a cold start in an hour.

Could explain how they have kept the sticker price down, Really going to dent the range in cold weather.

Good the Canuks are getting the same spec as Europe with Heatpump..

Article on the system in the Kona. Nissan need to look and learn

Exclusive: details on Hyundai’s new battery thermal management design
 

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It depends on the car really. The Ampera was just as efficient for heating on electric resistive as the Soul is with its heatpump. The Ampera was much better insulated. The Soul seems to warm up more efficiently (the interiors get just as cold after a long night!) but both are around the 1kW range to keep the cold nicely at bay.

I don't think it makes that much sense in NA, much colder winters, the efficiency of heat pumps is ideal in our miserable 5~15C range, from the series of tests I have run once you start trying to pull more thermal flux from the coolant loops than the motor/inverter actually generates then it starts getting inefficient.

Remember these are built differently, there are heat-from-air heat pumps (Zoe/Leaf, not sure about i3) and heat-from-water (HKMC).

For a large battery the extra 'cost' of a couple of kWh is not worth the extra cost in on-board complexity and warranty liability, especially when the temperatures really do routinely get to <-10C and there is no way a heat pump will deliver.

...makes sense to me....
 

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I can see what @donald is saying, but surely the air-con is still a heatpump, just that the Kona's heatpump can be used for both heating and cooling, whereas the US one is cooling only.
Or could it be that with some parts of the US being insanely hot (points at Arizona) that the a/c heat pump has to be specially optimised for that level of heat and thus isn't so easily used for heating in winter?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I can see what @donald is saying, but surely the air-con is still a heatpump, just that the Kona's heatpump can be usef for both heating and cooling, whereas the US one is cooling only.
Or could it be that with some parts of the US being insanely hot (points at Arizona) that the a/c has to be specially optimised for that level of heat and thus isn't so easily used for heating in winter?

No like the i3 etc had AC but no heat pump

And after living 10 years in the US including Norghern California and Nevada. A heat pump would be a must for me. Most Americans even living in warm climes travel to colder areas

I think it’s one of those things you appreciate when coming from a non heat pump car just how much energy it saves and how comfatabke it makes the car
 

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Heat pumps in cars can't run as reverse cycle. The heater/cooler matrix and the radiator/heat exchanger cannot be symmetrically sized, the flow control is considerably different, and you always want heat and AC at some time together.

There is a large number of different components and while the components already exist for hot water systems, from the ICE models, it is a 'no brainer', TBH.

I think the only reason the heat pump exists at all is for the 40kWh variant. I can't see the point of the extra engineering hassle with 64kWh available.
 

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Maybe this explains why the EPA range is so pessimistic. Do they test with heating?
It'll probably be because HKMC seem very poor efficiency when charging.

All of my EVs have been better than 90%, except Soul which is around 85% when charging. EPA is energy out of the wall.
 

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Could explain how they have kept the sticker price down,
No doubt the US market is very price-sensitive. Here in NZ we have little choice but to pay nearly twice as much but we have all that kit included, even in my base model, and our climate is California-like. I'm sure I will never need that battery heater.
As there is both a condenser and evaporator in the HVAC box I suspect it can apply both cooling and (re)heat to control humidity. In practice I find the system to make for a very comfortable cabin.

IMG_2043.jpeg
 

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Discussion Starter #9
No doubt the US market is very price-sensitive. Here in NZ we have little choice but to pay nearly twice as much but we have all that kit included, even in my base model, and our climate is California-like. I'm sure I will never need that battery heater.
As there is both a condenser and evaporator in the HVAC box I suspect it can apply both cooling and (re)heat to control humidity. In practice I find the system to make for a very comfortable cabin.

View attachment 109538
Isnt that because the first batch of cars hitting NZ were actually UK/IE spec cars (No AUS/NZ Satnav) compared to cars actually designed for the Oceania region. So would have the full system as per Euro cars.

Will be interesting to see what happens to the AUS/NZ spec when the correct market cars arrive

The US Cars seem to be missing the Black Covered section to the left of the picture that has the heat pump under it.

IMG_2440.jpg
 

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Yes, Irish spec cars here, next year AU/NZ and who know what that means but I'll bet we lose the HP.
The thing under that cover are the valves that do the switching for the heat pump system. The compressor is down below next to the traction motor.
 

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It proves that you really need to properly understand the specifications of the model sold in your country and not rely on reviews online from another country. The same problem is happening to prospective e-Niro owners with different countries having different, seemingly random, selections of default and optional features!

I'd definitely make a checklist of all possible features and a priority list of the things I want, to ensure I wasn't disappointed. I once bought a car and after two weeks realised it didn't have a clock, despite having every other convenience feature!
 

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I didn't know my Kona didn't have NAV, just expected it for 75 grand. It was actually the inclusion of the heat pump in the base model available in the showroom that sold me ... and diverted my attention from checking for other desirable features. The eGolf sold here doesn't have that and it's optional in the i3 so that and the range sold me. Chances are the HP makes little difference in our local warm climate but I like having technology on board that I feel should be included in an EV.
 

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I fully expect, when my Kona Elite arrives, that with a heat pump, my excellent, regularly upgraded TomTom navigator, and Google Maps now providing directions to the nearest charge points via Android Auto, I will have a better package than a 2020 version...
 

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Not sure why (especially in a very cold area) people are worried about Heat Pumps, yes on a small battery car they were almost essential but on 40kWh plus what worry. The power saving is probably only in the range of 1.5kWh......thats less than 30 miles on a single long motorway journey (in the bigger Kona), by which time you would have been driving for 4 hours.
 

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On long fast drives, a heap pump adds little range. On other driving (other then taxi) a long range EV have more range then more people use in a day.
 
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