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Non-OLEV Home Charger

8K views 20 replies 11 participants last post by  Trevor Larkum 
#1 ·
Why non-OLEV? Because I can get the charger I want for £424.99 including VAT and Delivery.
When I did an enquiry on the Rolec site, their installer came back to me with a quote for a charger I don't want, with a contribution from me of £672 (plus the £500 from OLEV).

My CU is just the other side of the wall from where the charger will go. Cable run of 6 feet max.
House totally re-wired and certified late 2007. I was going to have 3 dual fuel heated towel rails, but decided against as I discovered the HouseHeat programmable system which allows me to control the heating for each room separately. So there is a completely unused place in the CU.

I would like the Rolec EVMM0020 32amp tethered J1772 MultiMode as it gives me an outdoor 3 pin socket as well.
That way, when it isn't on charge, we can vacuum and pressure wash the car. I appreciate that at that price the Rolec doesn't have a built in Meter and Comms unit, but if I don't have the OLEV grant, I won't need it.

So, if I notify Western Power (the DNO), get the electrician who re-wired the house to connect the charger and certify the install, then even if my sparks is now charging £50 an hour for three hours, I will get the charger I want for about £575. Not £672.

Can someone can see a flaw in the plan, or know of an OLEV installer who can supply and fit the approved version of the EVMM0020?
 
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#2 · (Edited)
Good plan.

The difference in cost is about the amount of paperwork the main installer has to handle in order to claim the grant. Along with the physical OLEV monitoring unit and the survey check that has to be done that the unit can connect back and phone home otherwise the installer does not get the grant. Then add in two lots of profit for the installer and in many cases their sub-contractor who actually does the install.

Looks like it is time for the OLEV grant for domestic chargers to cease. The installed base should be large enough now to gather meaningful stats.

Perhaps we should lobby for the money to be diverted into public charging infrastructure instead of domestic installations with by now unnecessary features that represent poor value for money for public funds and offer no actual saving to the home owner over a private install.
 
#4 ·
As long as your electrician knows what they are doing in terms of the specific requirements for an EV charging point, your plan is perfectly sound, and for a simple install it's not surprising that the OLEV grant might now be more trouble than it's worth for you.

In particular it's important that:
  1. the charge point goes on its own circuit, with a dedicated MCB of the appropriate size
  2. the cabling is all chunky enough to be able to handle continuous high current use (really for a 32A point you want 6mm2, though the regs would permit 4mm2)
  3. the right RCD protection is in place (the Rolec point may have this built in already, but you need at least a Type A and ideally Type B RCD)
  4. the earthing has been properly checked, and if your house has a PME earth, and your charge point is located outside, or somewhere where the car can charge while it's outside, then you will need an earthing rod as well.
 
#6 ·
Wallpod EV:MultiMode Archives - Ev One Stop
Multimode wallpods available her if it helps - if you contact us we may have an installer in your area aswell
OLEV currently do not fund / part fund any units that are different from the original standard that qualified.
with the OLEV units you are paying mainly for the data connection / collection, this is why it appears expensive.
we hope you get sorted soon and if there anything we can do help give us a shout.
 
#7 ·
Wallpod EV:MultiMode Archives - Ev One Stop
Multimode wallpods available her if it helps - if you contact us we may have an installer in your area aswell
OLEV currently do not fund / part fund any units that are different from the original standard that qualified.
with the OLEV units you are paying mainly for the data connection / collection, this is why it appears expensive.
we hope you get sorted soon and if there anything we can do help give us a shout.
Thank you. Interesting that your data sheet now says they are OLEV approved.
EV One Stop – WallPod Multi-Mode
 
#10 ·
This OLEV grant thing is a bit of a tax payer con, but still works out cheaper for the individual.

As noted over 400 quid of the install cost is associated with the monitoring system, so in reality the subsidy is less that £200.

Still, you get a £400 install for £200 so it's worth doing if you don't mind the hassle, and don't want to just run a 13A for under £100.

I'd love to see OLEV drop the monitoring system as they could subside twice as many installs for the same cash, but I guess they need to be able to prove the cash isn't being wasted, so they waste some cash to do so...
 
#11 ·
I quite agree that the OLEV grant is a con, but I cannot see how it works out cheaper for the individual.
I now have a quote from my electrician ~£80. The point will cost me £424.99 all in. Total = £505.
OLEV "approved" installer quote = £672, plus they get the £500 grant from OLEV AND I still don't get an outdoor 13amp socket so i can vacuum the car because they can only use OLEV "approved" chargers.
Sorry, but no, it doesn't work out cheaper. Not for me and not for the taxpayer.
Do it my way and OLEV don't get usage figures that they probably don't understand anyway. Plus, the government doesn't get to monitor my use of the car. I will also get my charging point installed within a week or two, not a month or three.
If it wasn't for Pen Pushers and Bean Counters wanting to collect data, we probably wouldn't need all these RFID cards and could just have a credit card reader on public charging points (with a clear display of their charges). No need for stupid annual membership costs either.

What we should have had is ONE national network of charging points that cost no more than double the domestic kWh rate to use and, no membership or "connection" fees.
The £4,500 subsidy on a new car just served to artificially inflate the price. Two years ago, I designed a light two seater car that would cost under £5K. OK, it would have only reached 40mph and barely done 40 miles, but it gives an idea of the real costs.
Likewise, the £500 grant, with it's metering and comms requirement bumped up the cost of home charger installs. The same pointless requirements increased the cost of public chargers.
So, we have a mess that is even worse than the railways before government regulation. It restricts our freedom of choice, costs us as EV owners and, as taxpayers.
I lay the blame squarely at OLEV's door. They simply didn't understand EVs, chargers or the needs, so they gave public money to local authorities. They, in turn, were equally clueless and gave the money to private companies to install some of these "charger things".

What should have happened is that these funds were used to install chargers in strategic places. Initially, rapids on motorways leading to major cities, with a mix of 22 and 7kW in the centres. In addition to the annual funding from central government, there should have been a modest income from charging fees to plough back into the project. Within a few years, there would have been a publicly funded national charging network that was the envy of the world.
Thanks a bunch OLEV!!
 
#12 ·
The £4,500 subsidy on a new car just served to artificially inflate the price.
People keep saying this but nobody has provided any recent proof that prices in the UK are artificially high compared to markets that have no subsidy. I do not believed the Outlander PHEV would have been the same price as diesel without the subsidy. I agree that price of Ampera at launch was fishy but that was a long time ago...

I am not clear how it can be £80 to install an EV charger. It has to be installed on a new, dedicated circuit with new MCB and the circuit has to be fully tested including checking earth bonding and a certificate issued. I assume the local electrician doesn't have a proper car charger tester so you will just plug in your car and hope for the best?

Personally I think the Rolec units are ugly but they are offering a good price of £299 on current grant fully installed. My second ChargeMaster install (30A type 2 tethered) was on higher Feb grant. Engineer arrived as arranged, did good job of install and tested properly all for price quoted on web site.
 
#13 ·
I'm not sure where your figures are coming from? Comparing like for like (well, as similar as possible without the normal plug socket) - the install cost for a Rolec wall pod is £299 (£330 for a 32a tethered one which I got).

So you would save at least £175 going through the grant (and it would have been another £100 or so on top of that before 1st March).
Now I also would have liked the plug socket, but didn't feel it was worth the extra cost!

If you are comparing a non Rolec olev eligible charger, a lot of them are much more expensive (not sure why there is such a difference), but you wouldn't be comparing like for like, and I would imagine getting one of those without the grant would be considerably more.

Had my standard Rolec wallpod installed yesterday and very happy with the cost and service.
 
#15 ·
My figures come from a written quote from the Rolec installer. My electrician has quoted £80 for labour. The EVMM0020 (non-OLEV) is £424.99 including Delivery and VAT. It is cheaper than "approved" similar models because it doesn't have a meter and comms unit. It does have a 13amp 3 pin socket behind a weather proof door.
£672 (plus the grant money), or £505. A unit I don't want, or a cheaper one that I do want.
Yes, I have now had a better quote from an installer on here, but it still doesn't give me the installation I want.
 
#17 ·
That Rolec installer is taking the piss then!
If you go through Rolec, they pass you on to a local installer and you pay a set price of £299 (or £330 if tethered).

If an installer is asking for double that, it's pretty appalling.

I agree that with your figures, going down the grant route is more expensive - and the installation is pretty straightforward for any electrician.

However, going through Rolec themselves (which is very straightforward and quick), the price with the grant is very reasonable and I couldn't justify a couple of hundred pounds more for the plug socket - which would have been handy for washing the car etc.
 
#18 ·
Yes that Rolec installer is extracting the urine as I went through the Rolec web form and they passed the details on.
True, I have received a better quote from a very reputable company on here but it still won't be for the unit I want and will send pointless data to pointless OLEV.
 
#19 ·
Hi all I have been reading your comments about installers and strange prices I have a thought if like me you are only looking for a good job at a fair price if you have solar p.v fitted to your home why not put a battery pack on which will give you the energy to charge your car then buy a basic charger and have it installed without going through OLEV
I am doing research for a company who are building a new HQ they want to make there building future proof I am doing the designs for that building and like you have had some bad prices please can any of you send me the prices people are wanting to charge you to me it looks a bit of a free for all any way good noght
David
 
#20 ·
Hi David,
I'm afraid I don't have solar PV, so I can't really help with that. @Trevor Larkum (see the Power, Fuel, Alt Energy and Environmental Impact forum on here) will probably be able to advise.

For the benefit of members who may have followed this thread, I will give a quick update on my non-OLEV install.
First of all, an apology for the delay due to being hospitalised twice in 2016. No, the Rolec charger didn't try to kill me.
My sparks did a brilliant job but we had a snag with the earthing rod. There's a narrow path between the house and the car. If we put the rod on the house side of the path, the soil would probably be too dry to get a good earth. If it went under the path then the car would go over it and damage the cable. So he ran the earth cable under the house, drilled through the foundations, under the front path and put the rod in the edge of the front garden under a neat plastic box.
Just one more snag; being in Cornwall, our soil is rather acidic. In fact, our bore hole water eats Copper pipe for breakfast. So, to be on the safe side, I decided to go for stainless steel, but this proved difficult to find. Eventually, the sparks found a supplier and we bought two rods which gave a good earth signal.
So, the charger has now been installed for two years and five months without any problems and the 3 pin socket has proved to be really useful too.
 
#21 ·
Hi all I have been reading your comments about installers and strange prices I have a thought if like me you are only looking for a good job at a fair price if you have solar p.v fitted to your home why not put a battery pack on which will give you the energy to charge your car then buy a basic charger and have it installed without going through OLEV
I am doing research for a company who are building a new HQ they want to make there building future proof I am doing the designs for that building and like you have had some bad prices please can any of you send me the prices people are wanting to charge you to me it looks a bit of a free for all any way good noght
David
@David Blair As Nev says, we install solar and batteries - you can see our battery thread here - and EV charge points. Currently we offer POD Point and Andersen charge points but we're thinking of moving in future to Zappi CPs because of the solar integration.
 
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