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Discussion Starter #1
With the next generation of EVs starting to come either with bigger batteries (tesla) or REX engines (BMW- Chevvy) I was wondering what everyone thought of the need for public 13amp/6kw type two posts. Will these become a legacy of the early days of EVs with vendors focusing on higher capacity posts or rapid chargers.

These only become useful to a current generation car if you are staying a long time, with the advent of longer ranges these may become even less useful.

Today we need every post we can get but with the advent of the next generation of cars I suspect they may become less and less relevant.
 

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13 amp posts are pretty much pointless in most situations that aren't all-day or all-night stops, as a relative late-commer to EVs compared to many here, I just find the 13a posts a let down in most given situations, too slow.
 

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Will these become a legacy of the early days of EVs with vendors focusing on higher capacity posts or rapid chargers
~7kW (32A) Type 2 Charging Stations at destination locations will be around for a very long time. A ~300 mile range Model S can be recharged overnight at ~7kW and the hardware is extremely cheap to deploy with many locations easily supporting 6 or more cars charging simultaneously (same power requirements as a mid-sized commercial kitchen).

I suspect the current CHAdeMO 'rapid' chargers will disappear much quicker than destination charging (assuming the destination charging has been designed to meet the location dwell time requirements). The stimulus for this will be the widespread deployment of the Tesla Supercharger network across Europe in 2014, demonstrating real 'rapid' charging capability (todays 50kW networks are not 'rapid').
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I think we have passed the point where CHAdeMO will disappear there are too many users and invested companies to just throw it away. If Nissans next car has CHAdeMO then I think it will be here for ever.

7kw is useful but it needs to be everywhere and it seem most charging vendors are favoring 3kw which is all but useless.

agree super chargers are going to be nice but its for the few that will be able to afford the cars to use them, for everyone else CHAdeMO is the best options
 

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7kw is useful but it needs to be everywhere and it seem most charging vendors are favoring 3kw which is all but useless.
Not in my experience Jon. Most charging vendors seem to favour 32A or 7kW. All the POLAR ones I have used are 7kW AFAIK.

What makes you say they are mostly 3kW?

It is true that the free offer for home units are 3kW but home chargers really don't need to be 7kW as they are mostly used overnight.
 

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I think we have passed the point where CHAdeMO will disappear there are too many users and invested companies to just throw it away. If Nissans next car has CHAdeMO then I think it will be here for ever.
The EU Clean Fuels directive will explicitly restrict investment in CHAdeMO. The Germans auto makers are committed to CSS and have already moved to ensure CHAdeMO will by 'sunset' by 2018. IMO Tesla's SuperCharger Type 2 connector enhancements will be included in the IEC Standards making it CSS compatible.

More importantly, waiting ~40 minutes to drive ~80 miles is not 'rapid' despite what we want to believe. I have no doubt Nissan understand that they must compete with Tesla if they want a future as an automaker. Tesla are already delivering 200 miles in 30 minutes (~120kW) with additional speed improvements in the pipeline.... 50kW CHAdeMO is simply 20th Century technology.
 

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13A public charging receives no funding from OLEV and all AC Charging Stations installed in the last couple of years have been 7-22kW Type 2.
About 80% of Milton Keynes charging infrastructure (which I believe has almost entirely been installed in the last couple of years) seems to be 13a Pod-Point and Chargemaster posts. There's an increasing number of 32a types, but most of them are not yet in operation or are out of order.
 

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agree super chargers are going to be nice but its for the few that will be able to afford the cars to use them
If you take a look around at Model S owners in Europe you'll find a lot are not "super rich" but more mainstream "middle income" people who often lease the car. It's very easy to justify the investment if you drive longer distances regularly.

By the end of the year you'll be able to drive Edinburgh -> Lisbon -> Rome -> Vienna -> Berlin -> Stockholm -> Tromso for FREE just using SuperChargers :)

Tesla_EU_Supercharger_6_Dec_2013.jpg
 

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About 80% of Milton Keynes charging infrastructure (which I believe has almost entirely been installed in the last couple of years) seems to be 13a Pod-Point and Chargemaster posts.
sure... that was the last OLEV funding cycle and simply delay between funding and installation... 32A Type 2 has been mandated for a couple of years now.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
The EU Clean Fuels directive will explicitly restrict investment in CHAdeMO.
That wont stop Nissan funding them, and with the waste and inneffectivity of the EU it will be years before CCS catches up with the current CHAdeMO role out

Regulation is not going to solve anything its only going to slow things down IMHO.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
sure... that was the last OLEV funding cycle and simply delay between funding and installation... 32A Type 2 has been mandated for a couple of years now.
Mandates dont mean anything unless your going to them for money, if its private companies installing (AKA Nissan, Ecotricity, Renault) then they can do what they like
 

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That wont stop Nissan funding them
Mandates dont mean anything unless your going to them for money, if its private companies installing (AKA Nissan, Ecotricity, Renault) then they can do what they like
True but given they relied on OLEV funding for the installation I doubt they will suddenly start funding a nationwide rollout that competes with the European Standards... personally, I think the next Nissan's and Renault's will have CSS but they can't reveal that without risking current sales.

The BMW i3 (and the new VW cars) will guarantee CSS dominates.
 

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Still a lot of 13 amp plugs out there, I believe you installed a lol of them :)
correct... but everyone was deployed as redundancy alongside 32A... now that we've completed out first 500+ donations we are about to start upgrading the 13A to 32A Type 2 because most drivers who use public charging now equip themselves with a suitable cable.
 
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