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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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So, when you turn on your heater, and your air-conditioning to counter it, what on the grid is doing the load following? Solar? Wind? Gas?
It puts out excess voltage until you add those loads, then, hopefully, if you incentivise enough people to add loads, it becomes 'not excess voltage' any more.

500 million switch mode supplies in the backs of TVs and computers have to reject 'excess' heat, cutting voltages from 250V rather than 230V, for example.

200 million fridge freezer motors run that bit faster and displace more heat in the process, and get more worn out in the process.

etc., etc...

Reality these days is volts at substations are better regulated so it may result more in higher voltages on the network rather than on local distribution.

But if you are a manager of the grid watching these thing and your hard ceiling is 900kV and it is at 895kV, rather than the normal 800kV (I don't know what figures apply to UK networks, but something like that), then you start looking desperately for ways to 'dump' 95kV overhead before it goes into the red.

... I am imagining all of that, but I imagine it is something like that ....
 

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Tesla Model S, Ford Transit Flt Bed (Smiths), Mitsubishi i-MiEV, Vectrix VX-1, Aixam Mega City
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Do the grid a favour and leave your car heating on max.
This masterplan will, of course, wear out the car heating system a lot faster! Wasting energy is a bad idea whatever the reason. If you feel really strongly about it, put your money were your mouth is and buy a big battery to store it so you can use it later rather than waste it. There is only so much one person can do, of course. Beyond that government policy has to weigh in.
 

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The Nat Grid does not need the publics help to control balance supply/demand it as all the "tools" it needs to do this and ultimately has the powers to force oversupply off the grid which it does regularly.
 

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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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Sometimes it's just best to say you don't know.
I think that was a response to @KenB ?

This masterplan will, of course, wear out the car heating system a lot faster! Wasting energy is a bad idea whatever the reason. If you feel really strongly about it, put your money were your mouth is and buy a big battery to store it so you can use it later rather than waste it. There is only so much one person can do, of course. Beyond that government policy has to weigh in.
The Nat Grid does not need the publics help to control balance supply/demand it as all the "tools" it needs to do this and ultimately has the powers to force oversupply off the grid which it does regularly.
Guys, guys, you're completely missing the point, and 'attempting' to let your hearts rule over your logic.

These market prices are the arbitration between what the suppliers want to give and what the consumers want to take. If the prices go negative, it means the suppliers want to give energy away. They wouldn't do that if there was no financial incentive for them to do that!!

Yes, the various national grid management entities (not just UK National Grid, this is a combined effort because we can import and export) can fiddle away and shut down coal stations in Germany at a severe and excessive financial penalty, but the cost and, probably, CO2 impact of that is considerable.

Shutting down our gas stations is also 'possible' but comes with cost. It is better to incentivise giving it away.

Hey, this IS the natural consequence of windmills and 'renewable energy'. You have to so oversize the capacity that it may not be trivial to shut it all down when not needed. You wanted it .. you got it!!

You can't ever 'waste' renewable energy that no-one wants. That's just a super-dumb thing to say. The Earth is steadily bombarded with energy we don't use. One might say we waste 170,000,000 GW of power because we just aren't collecting it!

OMG!!! 170,000,000 GW of heating just being lost into the atmosphere!!! :eek: We're doomed!!!!
 

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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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No, I quoted you. Is that how it works or how you think it works?
I can be sure that it is; one, other, or both.

Is this any different to how it works, or how @KenB thinks it works?
The Nat Grid does not need the publics help to control balance supply/demand it as all the "tools" it needs to do this and ultimately has the powers to force oversupply off the grid which it does regularly.
Hence, maybe it was at him.
 

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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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It's great that @donald is derailing yet another thread through obfuscation.
I do not understand your accusation.

On the contrary, I have answered the OP directly, and affirmatively, then others have then tried to derail the thread by discussing how wasteful it is to return renewable energy back to the atmosphere from whence it came. I am just putting that nonsense into context.

You are thrusting your agenda into the discussion and accusing me of derailing the question, merely because your view actually sides with the de-railers.

Stop it. Try being balanced and neutral rather than picking the side of the people you agree with (about something else). You're not rei, so no need for you to do that.
 

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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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Question;-
Silly me. I have just realised that if I am going to make the most of Octopus Agile tarriff when they are paying you then I should set my car to maximum temperature and heat it thoroughly - even in Summer.

Does that sound daft?
Derailed;-
Not really. A little irresponsible though.
If you need to charge your car, charge it. You're going to use that energy later.

If you have laundry that needs doing or something like that then sure take advantage of not paying for the energy. Do what you were going to do anyways just at the times when you're not paying.

But don't just deliberately waste the energy as its not going to do the environment any good especially generating unnecessary heat to dissipate into the atmosphere. While I'm sure you could make money standing 30 or so electric heaters in your garden using your entire electricity supply for example it's undoing the benefits of you owning an EV.

I realise that not everyone is in it for the environmental reasons but rather the cost savings and are tempted to do all they can to earn a couple of extra pence from wasting the power but I really must say please don't.
Quote me what do you think I put that derailed it 'further'?
 

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Question;-


Derailed;-

Quote me what do you think I put that derailed it 'further'?
So when the OP asked "does that sound daft" the only acceptable response was yes/no? Not really forum worthy is it?

You've responded with a hypothesis that supports your position (no) that there is no harm (not being daft) but have failed to provide any evidence to support it. Except the usual bluster and smoke that you think somehow proves your point.

I haven't said whether it's daft or not, because I genuinely don't know how the grid responds. My assumption is that a thermal unit must increase load to match the increased demand. I've actually asked the question on a forum which actually has people within the industry to respond.
 

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Silly me. I have just realised that if I am going to make the most of Octopus Agile tarriff when they are paying you then I should set my car to maximum temperature and heat it thoroughly - even in Summer
Does that sound daft?
Hi Andy, have you got a referral code for Octopus Agile please. I have decided its time to move away from my simple, easy to understand tarriff to one which looks more challenging. How long have you been on Agile? My wife is fighting a rearguard action and accuses me of only wanting to change because its complicated, but I pay the energy bill.

With the PV panels I have not paid a penny for home charging since furlough began but I will have to soon.
 

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Hi Andy, have you got a referral code for Octopus Agile please. I have decided its time to move away from my simple, easy to understand tarriff to one which looks more challenging. How long have you been on Agile? My wife is fighting a rearguard action and accuses me of only wanting to change because its complicated, but I pay the energy bill.

With the PV panels I have not paid a penny for home charging since furlough began but I will have to soon.
If Andy doesn't reply feel free to use my referral code below....
 

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Hi Andy, have you got a referral code for Octopus Agile please. I have decided its time to move away from my simple, easy to understand tarriff to one which looks more challenging. How long have you been on Agile? My wife is fighting a rearguard action and accuses me of only wanting to change because its complicated, but I pay the energy bill.

With the PV panels I have not paid a penny for home charging since furlough began but I will have to soon.
If you are an existing Octopus customer you can switch via their web site, thats what I did one afternoon and next day I was on Agile. A couple of clicks and the job was done.

Of course if you are not, then you'll need to switch first - and have a SMETS2 meter as well.

I switched from the relativly simple Go tariff to Agile back in May. But with the travelling restrictions of these past 4 months, like you I've been able to charge totally from solar. Usually we drive about 9 -10, 000 miles per year. But this year, so far, we have now driven just over 1300 miles. I cant see us breaking much more than 3000 miles by the year end. So even with the very low Agile prices I've only benefitted from the power used by the house.

If you do switch to Octopus make sure you wait until you get the existing customer introduction code you have asked for. Start your switch from the link they give you.

Although I am on Agile, I suspect that come the winter, when my solar makes 1kw instead of 28kws a day and assuming power demand for offices and industry increases plus assuming our motoring increases, I might find there comes a time when moving back to Go makes sence. Luckily swopping between tariffs is easy and penalty free at Octopus.

Hope your switch goes smoothly
 

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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
Joined
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27,605 Posts
Hi Andy, have you got a referral code for Octopus Agile please. I have decided its time to move away from my simple, easy to understand tarriff to one which looks more challenging. How long have you been on Agile? My wife is fighting a rearguard action and accuses me of only wanting to change because its complicated, but I pay the energy bill.

With the PV panels I have not paid a penny for home charging since furlough began but I will have to soon.
Feel free to use mine in my signature! ;)
 

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They're still not doing 3 phase.
I'd guess it will be a metering issue, Agile relies on half-hourly data from a smart meter and the development of 3 phase SMETS smart meters has lagged behind single phase meters because they are a much, much smaller part of the market.

Most of the 3-phase meters (in business properties) rely on a different data comms infrastructure which isn't compatible with the SMETS smart metering system.
 
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