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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have just ordered a Kia Niro PHEV and need to consider how to move forward in setting up my charging system before the car is delivered. My energy supplier at the moment is Octopus who offer special tariffs and charger installations I believe. Is this the best way forward or are their better alternatives? Has anybody had experience of their system?
 

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The Go tariff is cheaper for 4 hours but you need to do the milage to make it pay as the peak rate is higher than the cap.
I do 70 miles a day and 4 hours overnight is enough for all my annual 16k
 

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As in the other thread. Just take great care with split tariffs because a small battery PHEV usually can't take enough 'cheap overnight ' energy to overcome the increase in 'higher priced day' energy. A large battery BEV used by someone driving a large daily mileage can benefit, as they draw a large number of overnight cheap units and can see savings. Many also put timers on white goods to run overnight. But a PHEV, even with an empty battery at the start of every overnight cheap session, usually just causes the day use to be more expensive, without the night savings even making a dent in that.

Octopus may still supply and fit a wallbox of course. And install the smart meter, which is required for any split tariff systems. As others have said, all of this would be fairly essential for a BEV that drives 12,000 electric miles pa. But a PHEV driving 2000 electric miles pa is a different thing. And often the expense of setting it up as if for a BEV would instead pay for electricity for it from a standard 13 amp plug on a standard tariff for the next twenty years.
 

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The Go tariff is cheaper for 4 hours but you need to do the milage to make it pay as the peak rate is higher than the cap.
a PHEV, even with an empty battery at the start of every overnight cheap session, usually just causes the day use to be more expensive, without the night savings even making a dent in that.
I'd say it depends very much on how much other power you use during the day. With my low mileage, I don't suppose I use any more power for charging than a PHEV would do, but Go works well for me. IIRC you only need to shift about 15% of your usage to overnight to offset the higher day rate. When I last checked, my average unit price was less than 3/4 of the capped price at the time I fixed.

Another thing to consider is that Go is a fixed tariff, so the price won't rise in October.
 

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Consider any other high-load household tasks can be run in the cheap window. Things like dishwasher and washing machines on a delay timer. You could probably still save money against the extremely high peak rate - my area shows a 37p/kWh peak rate, vs. the 28p/kWh price cap rate, so nearly 10p/kWh to make up!

My calcs show I can save about £380 over a year by getting on GO, but that's with 8000 miles in a pure BEV and also shifting an estimated 500kWh usage to that cheap window.
 

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One thing is that the GO tariff is fixed for 12 months, so comparing a caped rate of 28p till October than perhaps 40% higher after that, so say 39p. So the fixed GO 35p peak is not looking that bad.

I recon you need 26% usage off-peak to make the current GO worth it compared to the current cap.
Happy to run a dishwasher overnight, but not leaving washing in a machine damp for hours.
We also have a hot water tank so have switched from gas to electric heating for that,
 

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I recon you need 26% usage off-peak to make the current GO worth it compared to the current cap.
Hmm... yes, I think the 15% I quoted must have been on the March prices. 25% does seem about right for the current numbers.

Using Smart Meter Reports to analyse smartmeter data, I have between 24% and 42% off-peak usage, March - May, for an average of under 8 units per day (inc. charging).
 

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I've not got my EV yet but have been carefully calculating costs.
Based on a high of 320kwh usage at home, I'd need to charge my vehicle 320 miles per month during off-peak hours to make Octopus Go the same cost as charging it on the standard Octopus tarrif.
500 miles a month would save me £15/month. 1,000 miles would save me about £45.
That doesn't allow for any other energy savings.
For me seems to work out at 24% off peak usage.
 

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ID.4 First Edition 77Kw
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As other people have said ...

(a) analyse your usage Daytime (35p) v 4hrs Overnight (7.5p) per Kw
(b) see what you can "shift" to overnight usage (Dishwasher / Washing Machine) ensure you can delay their operation
(c) ensure your car / charger can be set to operate overnight
(d) that you do "enough" miles to justify the increased day-time rate

I've been on Octopus Go for 1 year, do over 20,000 miles and certainly benefit from the lower overnight rate, but you'll need to do your own maths, based on your usage patterns to see if it's worth it. For example if you do very low EV mileage, and need to use alot of Kw's on the higher-daytime rate - it may not be worth it !
 

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I have just started a move to Octopus from Ovo energy ( my 2 year fixed deal ends end of june 2022 )
These are what i have been offered by Ovo energy ( June 2022 )
Ovo energy ( West Yorkshire )
Variable rate is 27.35p per kW ,
standing charge 48.52p a day


Ovo energy Fixed 1-2 year rate is : ( West Yorkshire )
36-87p - 37.03p per kWh
standing charge 55.04p a day


Octopus Go ( West Yorkshire )
Unit : 33.96p per kW
Standing Charge : 48.26p per day

I did not have a smart meter while i was with Ovo energy as i was only paying 15p per kW
but i arranged to have a smart meter fitted by Ovo energy before i left to make sure it would work before
i moved suppliers ,Plus i also joined Ripple Energy and needed to change supplier at some point.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I have just started a move to Octopus from Ovo energy ( my 2 year fixed deal ends end of june 2022 )
These are what i have been offered by Ovo energy ( June 2022 )
Ovo energy ( West Yorkshire )
Variable rate is 27.35p per kW ,
standing charge 48.52p a day


Ovo energy Fixed 1-2 year rate is : ( West Yorkshire )
36-87p - 37.03p per kWh
standing charge 55.04p a day


Octopus Go ( West Yorkshire )
Unit : 33.96p per kW
Standing Charge : 48.26p per day

I did not have a smart meter while i was with Ovo energy as i was only paying 15p per kW
but i arranged to have a smart meter fitted by Ovo energy before i left to make sure it would work before
i moved suppliers ,Plus i also joined Ripple Energy and needed to change supplier at some point.
I have been looking into Octopus Go and it is very tempting if you consider the Ohme chargers which keep you on the cheapest nightime tariffs as I see it but the best one is quite expensive. I need to make contact with Octopus to checkout their link to Ohme.On Octopus Go you get four hours during the night at 7.5p/Kh so very tempting
 

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Just an FYI you're not limited with just the Ohme to use their overnight cheaper leccy.

Any smart charger will do the same thing, or even the cars inbuilt charging schedule (if it has one that's reliable!).

Basically you just need a plug with a timer function.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I am thinking the same now. I am currently with Octopus by default and intend ringing them to check what they can offer me - probably "Go" - and is this option linked to my installing an Ohme charger. I can buy an Ohme Home Pro for £512 but would I get the £350 Gov grant if I fit it myself ie mount it and running a cable up to the box and having an electrician wire it in.? There must also be similar chargers at a better price as you say. Are you suggesting that I could simply use my domestic socket with a plug-in timer or a dedicated charger with a timer function? My new car will be a PHEV
 

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I am thinking the same now. I am currently with Octopus by default and intend ringing them to check what they can offer me - probably "Go" - and is this option linked to my installing an Ohme charger. I can buy an Ohme Home Pro for £512 but would I get the £350 Gov grant if I fit it myself ie mount it and running a cable up to the box and having an electrician wire it in.? There must also be similar chargers at a better price as you say. Are you suggesting that I could simply use my domestic socket with a plug-in timer or a dedicated charger with a timer function? My new car will be a PHEV
If you have a working smart meter you can change to Go yourself here, and see the prices:
www.octopus.energy/go

FYI, grants are no longer available to homeowners. Only tenants.
 

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Are you suggesting that I could simply use my domestic socket with a plug-in timer or a dedicated charger with a timer function?
Exactly that.

Obviously a dedicated charging point is safer but using a granny charger on a timer would also work to use the cheap overnight leccy, basically any device on a timer can use the cheap overnight leccy, such as dishwashers, washing machines etc.
 

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ID.4 First Edition 77Kw
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I am thinking the same now. I am currently with Octopus by default and intend ringing them to check what they can offer me - probably "Go" - and is this option linked to my installing an Ohme charger. I can buy an Ohme Home Pro for £512 but would I get the £350 Gov grant if I fit it myself ie mount it and running a cable up to the box and having an electrician wire it in.? There must also be similar chargers at a better price as you say. Are you suggesting that I could simply use my domestic socket with a plug-in timer or a dedicated charger with a timer function? My new car will be a PHEV
The Government EV grant ended in March 2022, so I'm afraid you have to remove this sum from your calculations. With my install, I purchased the subsidised OHME with commando socket via Octopus, and had an electrician install a connection and hardwired this in, with a Pen safety device. To save on the labour costs I ran the cable the Electrician specified.

If you're getting a PHEV, you don't need the 7/8Kw speed, 3Kw would be fine as you're only needing to get about 30miles into the battery, - you might be best off just using a Granny charger. Just get an electrician to install a suitable external 13amp socket with suitably rated time switch, but make sure the install is for EV use (Pen protected etc).
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Exactly that.

Obviously a dedicated charging point is safer but using a granny charger on a timer would also work to use the cheap overnight leccy, basically any device on a timer can use the cheap overnight leccy, such as dishwashers, washing machines etc.
Thanks for that I think I'm getting there! I will continue to at least look into a good value dedicated charger as,if I were to use the granny lead I would still set up a separate ring from the house rings
 

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You can run a granny charger off a normal socket but remember that you will be pulling 10A around the house for an extended period of time. If you install a dedicated socket, it needs the correct level of protection (double pole RCD, DC protection and open PEN if your earthing is TN). At that point it becomes a similar price to getting a proper charge point.

As for a timer, the best option is to use the one in the car if it has one. Using a domestic time switch to regularly switch 10A isn’t going to end well.

Every time you break the current, a small electrical arc is created which damages the contacts inside the time switch, increasing their resistance. The energy lost at the contacts is proportional to the square of the current so a contact resistance of 1 ohm will generate the same heat as a 100w lightbulb. You wouldn’t touch the outside of one of those even though the glass is some distance from the filament. Now imagine the temperature near the filament and compress what you see into a little ball and decide if you want that on a socket inside your house.
 

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As a few people said you can have any charger. However the cheapest Ohme charger that Octopus fit is perfectly suitable and out of a couple of costs I've had Octopus gave me a reasonable quote (not the cheapest by a touch) but gave me most confidence as the cheapest didn't ask me for any information so expecting a teeth sucking!
Personally I'd suggest getting a 7kw charger simply as you're next car will likely be a BEV or if you sell then it'll add value to your property anyway.
 
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