Speak EV - Electric Car Forums banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
136 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Does anyone know what is the max AC changing speed?
If I connect 22KW public charger to Kona will it get 22KW or 7.2KW?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
136 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
This is what I expected. I flicked through manual but couldn't find any reference to speed / No of phases.
Thank you!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
72 Posts
It’s a bit of a shame it’s just 7kW AC.

I appreciate that most people who charge at home do so with the three pin or 7kW wall box as that’s safe for a domestic supply but the car park in my building doesn’t have chargers or an electric supply but there are 22kW public chargers nearby.

As the Kona is a firm favourite for replacing the GTE as my next car as I’ll actually be able to make my commute with its range it would have been nice if it was at least 11kW or have it as an option to upgrade.

I appreciate that means it would have to be a three phase onboard charger and honestly I’m not sure what it would need to be done to install it but there so many 22kW public chargers out there now it would have been a good option to top up range at the shops or long journeys when CCS wasn’t available/working (I’m looking at you, Electric Highway).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,475 Posts
It’s a bit of a shame it’s just 7kW AC.

I appreciate that most people who charge at home do so with the three pin or 7kW wall box as that’s safe for a domestic supply but the car park in my building doesn’t have chargers or an electric supply but there are 22kW public chargers nearby.

As the Kona is a firm favourite for replacing the GTE as my next car as I’ll actually be able to make my commute with its range it would have been nice if it was at least 11kW or have it as an option to upgrade.

I appreciate that means it would have to be a three phase onboard charger and honestly I’m not sure what it would need to be done to install it but there so many 22kW public chargers out there now it would have been a good option to top up range at the shops or long journeys when CCS wasn’t available/working (I’m looking at you, Electric Highway).
I think adding 3 phase inverts starts to add some serious cash

I know the Zoe we had did it in a different way buy using the motor coils as part of the charging circuit. But it does not seem to be a popular option that any other manufacturer has used

Downsides of the Zoe system seem to be its very inefficient on lower charge rates and when charging at home the motor can generate harmonics on the home electrical system, (buzz on TV and microwave oven sings).

I know the newer BMW i3 uses 3 3.5kwh single phase chargers to get the 11kwh 3 phase into the car, and can also combine 2 off the them for 7.2 kwh single phase

Not sure but That sounds like an expensive and heavy solution.

Pity 3 phrase to the home is so rare in the UK it would have incentivised them more to include it if it was (look how popular the Zoe is in France where there is 3 phase to the home)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
72 Posts
I think adding 3 phase inverts starts to add some serious cash

I know the Zoe we had did it in a different way buy using the motor coils as part of the charging circuit. But it does not seem to be a popular option that any other manufacturer has used

Downsides of the Zoe system seem to be its very inefficient on lower charge rates and when charging at home the motor can generate harmonics on the home electrical system, (buzz on TV and microwave oven sings).

I know the newer BMW i3 uses 3 3.5kwh single phase chargers to get the 11kwh 3 phase into the car, and can also combine 2 off the them for 7.2 kwh single phase

Not sure but That sounds like an expensive and heavy solution.

Pity 3 phrase to the home is so rare in the UK it would have incentivised them more to include it if it was (look how popular the Zoe is in France where there is 3 phase to the home)
I think you’re complete right.

Electric cars are still in the infant stages and with all the other associated costs, companys aren’t going to spend more money where they can make a case not to (like using more than a single phase charger is too expensive/heavy and most people charge at home where 7kW is the max, like you said).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
It’s a bit of a shame it’s just 7kW AC.

I appreciate that most people who charge at home do so with the three pin or 7kW wall box as that’s safe for a domestic supply but the car park in my building doesn’t have chargers or an electric supply but there are 22kW public chargers nearby.

As the Kona is a firm favourite for replacing the GTE as my next car as I’ll actually be able to make my commute with its range it would have been nice if it was at least 11kW or have it as an option to upgrade.

I appreciate that means it would have to be a three phase onboard charger and honestly I’m not sure what it would need to be done to install it but there so many 22kW public chargers out there now it would have been a good option to top up range at the shops or long journeys when CCS wasn’t available/working (I’m looking at you, Electric Highway).
The Kona’s rapid charge solution is DC CCS at up to 75kW (when they become available in UK). CCS charge points are growing rapidly and are becoming the de facto standard - even the Tesla Model 3 will be CCS. So I don’t think the 7kW on-board AC charger limitation is an issue especially as installing 3-phase in homes would be very expensive. Also the extra weight and complexity would probably not be worth it.

Also I have had a Zoe for last 3 years and had numerous problems charging on rapid AC Chargers. More than half the time Zoe’s Chameleon charger aborted during charging (and yes I did have it checked).

Now I also have a Kona and I’m loving it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
72 Posts
The Kona’s rapid charge solution is DC CCS at up to 75kW (when they become available in UK). CCS charge points are growing rapidly and are becoming the de facto standard - even the Tesla Model 3 will be CCS. So I don’t think the 7kW on-board AC charger limitation is an issue especially as installing 3-phase in homes would be very expensive. Also the extra weight and complexity would probably not be worth it.

Also I have had a Zoe for last 3 years and had numerous problems charging on rapid AC Chargers. More than half the time Zoe’s Chameleon charger aborted during charging (and yes I did have it checked).

Now I also have a Kona and I’m loving it!
Especially as the active water cooled battery means you shouldn’t have issues dealing with multiple CCS charges on longer journeys.

Nissan better get their act together and quick with the e-plus.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
A I understand it it makes little sense to upgrade your home installation for three phase chargers, but most malls and big shops surely already have three phases so a 22kW charger installed is much cheaper than a DC charging station. 22 kW is enough for the mall to pay your visit juice expense, so it is a pitty Kona does not have that ability.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Th
A I understand it it makes little sense to upgrade your home installation for three phase chargers, but most malls and big shops surely already have three phases so a 22kW charger installed is much cheaper than a DC charging station. 22 kW is enough for the mall to pay your visit juice expense, so it is a pitty Kona does not have that ability.
Yes and 43kW AC chargers are now common place at public charge points. My understanding (not an expert - so happy to be corrected) is that the battery is DC and therefore you need an onboard AC charger capable of handling these higher powers to convert to DC to charge the battery. This kit is heavy and also causes losses in the conversion process. This is not the case with DC charging. Hence DC is the way EVs seem to be going for rapid charging. Although of course both options would be even better!
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
11,093 Posts
This kit is heavy and also causes losses in the conversion process. This is not the case with DC charging.
Not entirely. At the moment only the Renault Zoe can use 43kW AC. Renault have a very cleaver design that reuses the drive motor and inverter so their on-board rapid charger adds very little weight or bulk to the car.

Efficiency is about the same no matter where the power is converted. The power has to be converted and the voltage adjusted somewhere. Rapid chargers of any sort loose a few percent. Of course with Zoe, the losses are in your car and not in their rapid.

There are a few cars out besides the Zoe that can charge at 22kW 3-phase AC. Teslas mostly. 11kW 3-phase AC is becoming common and will likely be the norm in a year or two.


43kW / 63Amp 3-phase AC rapids will probably eventually disappear. Zoe is the only production car that can use them. The next generation Zoe is going to have CCS (DC) charging.
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top