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After the Queen made her speech are we to expect a single eV user RFID card that can be registered to any network?

I would be one to go for this option after so many smart phone related failures to charge.

I'd even pay a small amount to cover the administration and cost of card.
 

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No just use of your credit card please as you buy fuel
 

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Seriously, I dont use an RFID to fill up my petrol car, I have yet to hear 1 single convincing arguement as to why they are good idea on charging stations.

oooh oooh its the future it needs something technical

All they do is add cost, complexity, confusion and things to go wrong and extra reasons for people not to switch to electric.
 

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30 years ago I used my credit card to buy fuel in a small garage in the Black Forest, in February I used a credit card to buy my ski pass whilst on a 'bus in Canada, today I paid for my lunch in a Restaurant in Milford on Sea, why the Hell do I need a RFiD card to pay my charger point bill?
 

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I think you are all being a bit fussy.

One RFID card that had a reasonable annual fee (like free) that started all points would be such a massive improvement on the c*ck up we have now.

If all points used credit cards then I would probably get another card to keep my charging costs separate from everything else. Not that these costs are high at the moment as charging around here seems too unreliable to me.
 

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SInce the costs will almost always be under £30 the current card reading kit could probably use the touch payment systems on current debit and credit cards. Such an obvious way forward. I really think the time has come for the charge networks to make a shift and move towards a more accessible and interchangeable system. Now Chargemaster have bought Elekromotive, they are starting to integrate the back offic of Polar and CYC.
I dont use public charge points, I dont travel by EV that far, but I also dont have an ANdroid or Apple phone, so I could not use an app anyway. Also around here (Suffolk) mobile signal is rubbish so you may nt be able to use an app anyway.
 

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To accept Credit/Debit cards (which is the most obvious solution) means having an online back office system & using encryption from the POS. Propriety systems are fiendishly expensive to build & maintain and require PCI (probably Level 1) security, which is a disruptive nightmare for your business, bought in systems PayPal et al are costly per transaction.

Someone has to pay for this infrastructure & service. Most of the Charging companies seem to be small/start up businesses that probably could not absorb the cost & from what I have read on here there is a reluctance by the users to pay for anything. Until a sustainable business model emerges from the charging companies I suspect the situation to continue.
 

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To accept Credit/Debit cards (which is the most obvious solution) means having an online back office system & using encryption from the POS. Propriety systems are fiendishly expensive to build & maintain and require PCI (probably Level 1) security, which is a disruptive nightmare for your business, bought in systems PayPal et al are costly per transaction.

Someone has to pay for this infrastructure & service. Most of the Charging companies seem to be small/start up businesses that probably could not absorb the cost & from what I have read on here there is a reluctance by the users to pay for anything. Until a sustainable business model emerges from the charging companies I suspect the situation to continue.
I can see the problems. But last time I was in a pay and display car park the person before me paid £4.50 by credit/debit card. So how do they manage that if the costs are so high ? It was just a normal cash parking ticket meter with a slot and key pad on. Most rapid transactions are undera tenner any way. So how do they do it ?

Richard
 

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I'd prefer using a card that wasn't a bank card on unattended posts. It should be possible to register any rfid card on the system.

An RFID card is far more sensible as it doesn't depend on the vagaries of someone's phone or their mobile data plan. RFID should be legislated for with apps/website to check post availability or start a charge. It's high time both were offered as standard. If your posts are unable to offer both then they go free vend and that's the end of it. I'm sure those that claim they can't do card and app/website will suddenly find they can.

A council car park will be processing far many more transactions than a charging post. One of those is probably one or two an hour at best per post. The car park will be tens or hundreds per hour per car park.
 

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Using a card to start/stop a charger and take the fee is clearly what is required. Many techy people in here have put forward a bewildering variety of reasons why this is impossible despite it being viable for a market trader standing in the street to sell you a pair of socks by that method. Visit Costa and a latte costs the same with cash or touch card.

It seems that the cost per transaction is prohibitive. That security is poor and your account would be stripped clean in days. They might bend, catch fire, and give you cancer. In fact the world would end if we were allowed to touch a card to get fuel. I don't buy it.

I can understand fears over security of course and they exist already as scumbags lurk in queues to scan your wallet and read the card in there so that they can make a clone. But as that threat already exists it can happen with your card whether it's used to buy coffee or electrons.

I also 'get' the cost implications which starts to be prohibitive for small transactions. But surely applying pressure to Banksters to accept that electronic transfers cost the same however many digits are involved is the way to go.

I have used travel smart cards, and ski pass cards. They costs a few quid to supply, and once loaded with credit can be read by simple terminals half way up a glacier. They suck money/ credit from the card and can be re-loaded as required. Security is negligible of course and if a master criminal was determined to use my ski data to grab a free day on the piste then his £2000 equipment could do that to save himself £30.

A similar card loaded with funds that can be taken out at the point of sale would be unattractive to a thief unless they also had an EV. And could be stopped at their first attempt as the owner rang to stop it working. In any case loss of a card pre-loaded with £20 is hardly wrist slitting time if it was used by such an odd criminal.

And the convenience to us all would be immense. Even the fanboy app brigade would be able to log on to interrogate the card to see if it had £20.43 credit or £3.46. They could get their 'app' fix by accessing their bank to top it up. View the month by month stats on usage and analyse in pie charts the data over average length of time charging and optimum arrival SOC to gain most electrons per minute. Many happy hours could be spent playing with that app. Oh what fun can be had in those long winter nights. But most of us would just fill the card and use it. And years from now tell our wide eyed grandkids about the nonsense that used to be forced upon us.
 

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I can see the problems. But last time I was in a pay and display car park the person before me paid £4.50 by credit/debit card. So how do they manage that if the costs are so high ? It was just a normal cash parking ticket meter with a slot and key pad on. Most rapid transactions are undera tenner any way. So how do they do it ?

Richard
The operator, either a local authority or large parking player like NCP, take the cost. They have the economies of scale, lots of people pay to park, far fewer to charge. Despite all the hysteria over security, Contactless either via a card or mobile device will eventually prevail. I have been involved with Contactless Credit & Debit cards for more than a decade so I guess I would say that;)
 

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Another solution would be to use the TFL oyster system that already exists and divert it to be a valid payment method for charging. It means all the work has basically been done and as the underground have also switched to contactless it would be making good use of something that would otherwise be wasted.

The website to top it up already exists so that's more work that has already been done and that could be re-purposed.
 

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The operator, either a local authority or large parking player like NCP, take the cost. They have the economies of scale, lots of people pay to park, far fewer to charge. Despite all the hysteria over security, Contactless either via a card or mobile device will eventually prevail. I have been involved with Contactless Credit & Debit cards for more than a decade so I guess I would say that;)
That was the first time I ever saw a card paying for parking. So A rapid network provider could just get someone else to take the transaction for them and give them a fee or percentage. Or just take the hit short term until the transactions build up. The 10 charger hub in Milton Keynes will be a very busy place.Or the government mandate that a central processing system is used for rapids. There is a minor problem to be overcome and it soon will be as ad-hoc payments will soon be mandated. I am sure Shell will also overcome the problem at their stations when they put the rapids in.

Richard
 

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The discussion above is a good thing.

I do not care what card based system is finally implemented, as long as it is simple and reliable to use and produces understandable bills, and most essentially, the same system works for all suppliers.
 

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If you read the impact statement, it looks like the government recognise (presumably due to lobbying) that trying to fit chip and pin (or contactless) to existing points is too expensive, although it hints they may legislate it for future points. Any such legislation is likely to be included when the AFID is implemented in UK law. See Transposition of Directive 2014/94/EU on alternative fuels infrastructure - GOV.UK

They are keen to get roaming between operators and claim that would not be too expensive to implement. That may be included in AFID or as secondary legislation to the "Automated and Electric Vehicles Bill". Bear in mind this is yet another name change for what started in 2016 as the "Modern Transport Bill".
 

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If you read the impact statement, it looks like the government recognise (presumably due to lobbying) that trying to fit chip and pin (or contactless) to existing points is too expensive, although it hints they may legislate it for future points. Any such legislation is likely to be included when the AFID is implemented in UK law. See Transposition of Directive 2014/94/EU on alternative fuels infrastructure - GOV.UK

They are keen to get roaming between operators and claim that would not be too expensive to implement. That may be included in AFID or as secondary legislation to the "Automated and Electric Vehicles Bill". Bear in mind this is yet another name change for what started in 2016 as the "Modern Transport Bill".
When I was haranging OLEV about the TEN-T network and the fact that there was no stipulation on the European grant about rapid charger reliability or availability and time to repair they gave a funny answer. Something along the lines of lots of differing technology involved and it would be hard to exactly specify things. Wool well and truly pulled over their eyes and the usual 25% failure rate with 10+ weeks to repair was laughable. Methinks the network providers need a good shove sometimes. The system should be specified first with the end user in mind THEN work out the best way to achieve it.

Richard
 

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Another solution would be to use the TFL oyster system that already exists and divert it to be a valid payment method for charging. It means all the work has basically been done and as the underground have also switched to contactless it would be making good use of something that would otherwise be wasted.

The website to top it up already exists so that's more work that has already been done and that could be re-purposed.
That is actually a spectacularly good call. If the owners could be incentived I could see it working.

Only problem would be major objections from the lovely people that run the Card Schemes, i.e. Visa & Mastercard & the equally lovely card issuers likely BarclayCrud.
 

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That was the first time I ever saw a card paying for parking. So A rapid network provider could just get someone else to take the transaction for them and give them a fee or percentage. Or just take the hit short term until the transactions build up. The 10 charger hub in Milton Keynes will be a very busy place.Or the government mandate that a central processing system is used for rapids. There is a minor problem to be overcome and it soon will be as ad-hoc payments will soon be mandated. I am sure Shell will also overcome the problem at their stations when they put the rapids in.

Richard
Richard, I admire your optimism & hope you are right. Having worked with the organisations concerned however, making things simple, useable, interoperable & cost effective would go against their programming
 
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