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Discussion Starter #1
First of all let me make it clear that I am all for any alternative forms of energy that help save the planet and that are better for everyone's health.

I think offshore wind farms are probably one of my favourite forms of alternative energy.

However, I dislike onshore wind farms, unless they are well away from populated areas, and well out of earshot.

This is nothing to do with nimbyism, but everything to do with affecting the surrounding community's state of health.

The reason I am asking if they are STILL noisy, is because I had a very unpleasant experience with the noise from a wind turbine many years ago and it has put me off them.

I say noise, but it was more of a sensation than a noise. It was a sort of low level constant whum whum sound.

That particular wind turbine was well away from any form of human habitation, which I remember thinking was just as well.

A friend who was with me at the time could hear the sound when we got up close, but they didn't find it uncomfortable. As we got further away, I found the sound uncomfortable for some distance after my friend could no longer hear it.

So that is my reason for disliking onshore wind farms.

Have the more modern turbines addressed this issue, that affects some people but not others?
 

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Only you can be the judge of that. Personally i do not know to what you refer as i find them very acceptable.
Everybody has to put up with something so that the wheels of society turn.

Perhaps if the turbines were nearer to habitats the people would not be able to hear them for the background noise.

Most of the noise of the old turbines came from the gearbox i believe but that is not the case now.

I hope you dont drive one of those car things, making all that noise,trying to kill people and supporting one of the worst industries on the planet.
 

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Ioniq
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I used to live in a small town near a motorway, a busy A road, a railway line, lots of other people going about their daily lives and driving their cars around, and two wind turbines.

Order those by intrusiveness and it was fairly apparent which was at the bottom.

We moved away to somewhere without any that I have found. It's a waste of wind, and where we lived before I liked seeing them, especially when returning from a trip away; they said "you're nearly home"...
 

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Anything that moves makes a noise, when you walk you make a noise, when you sleep you make a noise, when driving your EV you are making a noise. Which noises you find acceptable or annoying will be different to everyone, I used to live next to a busy A-road, and I'd rather have have the noisiest wind farm on the planet next to me than that blooming road!

Perhaps you are susceptible to certain sound frequencies that make you uncomfortable, just like some people see the rainbow effect on DLP projectors?
 

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The bigger issue is the amount of carbon emitted by the foundation slab which probably exceeds the saving in CO2 from fossil fuel generation of the amount of electricity produced.
 

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The bigger issue is the amount of carbon emitted by the foundation slab which probably exceeds the saving in CO2 from fossil fuel generation of the amount of electricity produced.
I take it thats a joke-right. If not you are so far off the truth as to be laughable even now and when in 2050 there is no FF generation!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
It's fair to say that a small, but significant number of people, are affected by the Infrasound and Low Frequency Noise that wind turbines produce. For those affected it can have an unacceptable impact on their lives There have been some improvements in the newest turbines, but the issue is still there.

Even the Centre for Sustainable Energy acknowledges that there is a problem. On page 112 on their wind power report ( Pages ), it says...
"In spite of continual improvements made to turbine design, there is a significant body of evidence showing that the characteristics of noise emissions from wind turbines can affect a small proportion of the communities that are exposed. Initially, complaints were typically met with assurances by wind farm developers that guidelines were in place and that the sited turbines complied (with a few exceptions). However, the guidelines in place, set by the ETSU-R-97 report, are problematic, as they do not always take adequate account of the aerodynamic noise characteristic of wind turbines. More troubling is the application of noise limits in ETSU-R-97, which are quite unlike any other national guidelines and can result in a significant disparity between background noise levels and wind turbine noise."
 

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The bigger issue is the amount of carbon emitted by the foundation slab which probably exceeds the saving in CO2 from fossil fuel generation of the amount of electricity produced.
Got to love recycled scare stories! There is a payback period but it is very short compared to the lifecycle of the plant.

https://www.longdom.org/open-access/life-cycle-analysis-of-the-embodied-carbon-emissions-from-14-wind-turbines-with-rated-powers-between-50-kw-and-34-mw-2090-4541-1000211.pdf
 

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Ioniq
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Even the Centre for Sustainable Energy acknowledges that there is a problem. On page 112 on their wind power report ( Pages ), it says...
Why are you asking us if you've been reading what the CSE have to say? The conclusion from which you quote basically says "turbines have improved a lot," (you said it was many years ago you had a problem), "but they will always make some noise; this is not a problem if it is accounted for as part of the planning process, but the guidelines used as part of that process need to be improved as they are old and a bit rubbish".

You are, quite literally, tilting at windmills.
 

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It's fair to say that a small, but significant number of people, are affected by the Infrasound and Low Frequency Noise that wind turbines produce. For those affected it can have an unacceptable impact on their lives There have been some improvements in the newest turbines, but the issue is still there.
And yet these people have gone their entire life without noticing the effects of this infrasound until they suddenly found themselves in close proximity to a wind turbine?

Sub-20Hz noise is all around us, just because we can't hear it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The idea that wind turbines are exceptional in this instance or significant can easily be disproved with some very simple sound frequency monitoring equipment in any urban or light industrial environment.

It's wind turbine induced infrasound illness is a quack-pseudoscience escalated by NIMBYISM.
 

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It is a valid point, but in limited circumstances. For example, there was a time when installing wind turbines in entirely inappropriate places (enterprise zones) was considered a good idea. They were often on lower ground and had poor boundary effects from nearby buildings. But they meant everyone in that zone had green credentials! The fact the turbine produced F'all from little available wind was forgotten.
 

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There is interesting evidence that there is a significant psychological element to perceived wind noise. I believe there have even been studies that show many people become annoyed at the sound only after they've been told they are near wind turbines, and similar instances.

I have some sympathy with the situation as I only suffer from tinnitus when I'm reminded of it, and I understand there are parallels.

"The subjects' attitude to wind turbines in general and sensitivity to landscape littering was found to have significant impact on the perceived annoyance. About 63% of variance in outdoors annoyance assessment might be explained by the noise level, general attitude to wind turbines and sensitivity to landscape littering."

"Several psychological mechanisms might account for symptoms attributed to wind turbines. First, the "nocebo effect" is a well-recognized phenomenon in which the expectation of symptoms can become self-fulfilling. Second, misattribution of pre-existing or new symptoms to a novel technology can also occur. Third worry about a modern technology increases the chances of someone attributing symptoms to it. Fourth, social factors, including media reporting and interaction with lobby groups can increase symptom reporting. For wind turbines, there is already some evidence that a nocebo effect can explain the attributed symptoms while misattribution seems likely. Although worry has not been directly studied, research has shown that people who are annoyed by the sound that turbines produce are more likely to report symptoms and that annoyance is associated with attitudes toward the visual impact of wind farms and whether a person benefits economically from a wind farm. "
 

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I live within 1 mile of an onshore windfarm that is made up of Senvion 3.4M104 turbines - 104m rotor diameter with a 72m hub height. There's a planning limit that restricts all onshore turbines to under 125m total height, and these come in at 124m, so it's fair to say that these are the biggest possible onshore turbines there are in this country.

We live in a valley and have no direct line of sight to the turbines. We can not feel nor hear anything from the turbines at any point at our house. We do hear and feel passing HGV and train traffic in the valley.

However, if you walk up to the turbines, or on the other side of the valley away from the turbines then you can hear them, if you are downwind. The noise is aerodynamic, lightly described as a constant "swish, swish, swish". It is similar to some of the aerodynamic noise you will hear from a large, low flying airliner (if you can separate it out from the engine noise) with gear down. The spectrum of the noise is very broad-band, probably the closest thing to a white noise you'll find in real life, amplitude modulated by the motion of the blade.

Even standing at the very base of the turbines while they're running (you can just walk up to them) I have experienced no low-frequency ground motion/infrasonics/etc. Only the airborne noise.

That airborne noise is less intrusive than aircraft or helicopters, and much less intrusive than traffic and trains. Overall I find it a total non-issue, despite living closer to such than pretty much anyone else in the country.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Everybody has to put up with something so that the wheels of society turn.
Yes, they do. However, just because something does not affect one person to a great extent, it doesn't mean that someone else might not be adversely affected. So due consideration must be given to all points of view.

I hope you dont drive one of those car things
Yes, I'm afraid that I do.

Why are you asking us if you've been reading what the CSE have to say?
I posted the thread the day before I saw the CSE article.

And yet these people have gone their entire life without noticing the effects of this infrasound until they suddenly found themselves in close proximity to a wind turbine?
Different sounds affect people in different ways.
 

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I live 2 miles from the M25. If I pay attention I can hear it as a faint murmur but I don't notice it otherwise.

During the first weeks of the lockdown is was weird, there is a bridge over the motorway and crossing it with the odd car or lorry going past was a surreal experience. Back to normal now...
 
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