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Open source is great and we have Linux and all it's spin off etc. but when you want to get things done accurately and precisely closed platform can be great also.
Selling the data? Once it ison a map people will copy it what ever. Good luck stopping people.
 

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The amount of discord on SpeakEV is astounding. Everything doesn't need to be so controversial.
Only in certain discussions, and I'm trying to deal with it between my day job. Growing pains that will settle down I'm sure.

I do believe the intentions of the open charge map database are good, it's a shame that they have had the stumbling blocks of the data licensing and map interface... but this is all still VERY early days in the grand scheme of things and it can only improve.
 

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Harmony? A motorist searching for a point needs to be assured the pin is actually where the Chargepoint actually IS! It needs to be accurately plotted, not dropped into a postcode centroid and its 'job done'. Some are within 30metres, others are lucky to be within 500 metres - and for the EV driver at night, seeing it will be slim. Even during the day, you often need to search on foot. Why?

If the OCM data just 'proved' each location, it would be inherently more reliable.

But they don't, and it isn't.

As for Google's involvement - since most of their location pins are a rough placement, if they think that's good enough for a Chargepoint, they're in for a shock. In the wrong car park, or the wrong side of a dual carriageway is fine for a fast food joint, but not a small post possibly hidden by an ICE.
 

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If the OCM data just 'proved' each location, it would be inherently more reliable.
But they don't, and it isn't.
IMHO "they" is the community. i.e. you and me. So if you use a charge point, update it in OCM.

We've done similar aggregation map effort albeit with no real attempt to tune the click through information.
https://evstatus.com/chargers.php#map
It's just a snapshot and as a lot of the data sets are propriety I don't think we we will do more with that. I'm far more likely to do a version using KML based on the OCM data. Though if someone else is doing that, I'll drop that down my priority list.
 
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Harmony? A motorist searching for a point needs to be assured the pin is actually where the Chargepoint actually IS! It needs to be accurately plotted, not dropped into a postcode centroid and its 'job done'. Some are within 30metres, others are lucky to be within 500 metres - and for the EV driver at night, seeing it will be slim. Even during the day, you often need to search on foot. Why?

If the OCM data just 'proved' each location, it would be inherently more reliable.

But they don't, and it isn't.
Well... OCM is open enough so that anyone can go in and edit it. If you find something wrong then change it and correct it.

People keep talking about "them" and what "they" do but with OCM there is no "them" and "they"... it is a community project so when you talk of "them" and "they" you are talking about you, me and everyone else!

It is easy to imagine that OCM is some kind of organisation that has people sitting around and not doing what you want them to do but that is just not the case. OCM is currently one developer... Chris Cook... and a few others that help out. The data is ours... that means if we find something missing then it is down to us to add it... no one else. If it is wrong then it is down to us to correct it... no one else. Chris and his small team can only do so much and certainly cannot check out every location... we, on the other hand, are visiting these locations every day and with a bit of determined effort from us all we could correct all the anomalies and inaccuracies in pretty short time.

Please, everyone, please let's stop moaning about the data on OCM. We have the power and the means to make it the best and most accurate database in the UK if we wanted it to be but it needs all of us to care enough to make that change.

I am not having a go at @Buzby or anyone else but just pointing out that with OCM the "them" and "they" is actually US!

If anyone needs help making changes then you are very welcome to get in touch with me. I am a UK editor and can point you in the right direction to do it yourself, or if you prefer, send me the details of what is wrong and the correct data and I will gladly update it myself for you.

Whether you do it or whether you get me or one of the other UK editors to do it - it must be done by us if we are to expect it to improve :)
 

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IMHO "they" is the community. i.e. you and me. So if you use a charge point, update it in OCM.
Well... OCM is open enough so that anyone can go in and edit it. If you find something wrong then change it and correct it.

People keep talking about "them" and what "they" do but with OCM there is no "them" and "they"... it is a community project so when you talk of "them" and "they" you are talking about you, me and everyone else!
Exactly this. :)
 

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Ifb
This is great - I would love it even more if it used different colours or shapes for different charge levels.

One interesting note is that this shows one of the many pitfalls of OCM data - I spotted a private home address on this map.
If the private home address is in Cheltenham and mine then it's there for a reason.
 

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I would suggest people check out the data on OCM local to them and go check it out for accuracy. I added a couple of pictures and some information which I hope will be useful to future out of area visitors. If we all do that then OCM can only grow and improve
 

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OCM has three main issues:

1) The data is of variable quality, and there is no easy way to know how good it is when you use it. One solution would be to have authorised verifiers and each entry is flagged as verified or not. Ideally edits would be flagged as provisional and you could view latest, or latest-verified. Becoming authorised would involve having a number of edits verified, or being vouched for by another authorised user.

2) The licensing is too gray, which is part of the cause of...

3) The UI is functional, but not a good example of usability. This is to be expected as the app is not the core product. The database is supposed to be used by other apps, but they seem to be scared off by the license. I recently found PlugShare, and I'm afraid it is so easy to use in comparison that I don't use OCM any more.
 

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1. Yes - but IMHO too formal. Just log the changes (diffs) and who made them. Ban hammer and remove the entries for any abusers (hopefully rare). It's got to easy to use, especially in it's current relatively low use state. For now a couple of admins could handle any abuse. Something more sophisticated if it grows. But anyway, I agree something should be done to indicate quality and possibly flag up entries that need some TLC.
2. http://openchargemap.org/site/develop#api seems clear enough to me. What's the issue?
3. Yes, that's where people like me and Scott need to step up.

Plugshare is not a solution because it's completely propriety.
Could easily become another http://www.ev-network.org.uk/
Maybe not, but do you want to put all your eggs into that basket?
 

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Well well another charge point location map! To me they are pretty similar and i can see a few inaccuracies in both. I am certainly not correcting both of them! so I will continue to update OCM
 

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So whilst you update OCM, others will stick with PlugShare with its friendlier interface and ease of contributing. So what if it is 'proprietary'? I still hold the data I provide from actual site visits, which I can 'donate' to other sites as I see fit. The alternative is I just retain the info for my own personal use - which is hardly playing fair!
 

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Well this is helping to focus where I should spend some of my limited time - making OCM easier to contribute to.
Is this down to the mobile app?
Or would making an easy to use web site be eonough?
 

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What makes PS a breeze is that the app organises everything - location position, photography and additional comments. Even when you are at previously listed sites you can fine tune (if need be) and add info as to whether you had a successful charge or how long you were charging there. I do this all whilst topping up (with nothing better to do).

Having to remember all this and separately update a website on my return when I don't have the time or have forgotten the access details to the Chargepoint as very much a second-best option.
 

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2. http://openchargemap.org/site/develop#api seems clear enough to me. What's the issue?
Aside from there being 3 different licenses, the last of which is 'do your own thing with the data provider', the derivative works clauses prevent a lot of interesting application cases.

I'd much rather see a real open license that doesn't have strings attached - let commercial people use the data and build on it and there is a good chance they will contribute back anyway. This is pretty much the GPL vs BSD license question.

If the derivative clauses work for your app, great - I just think we'd see more investment in time and money if those clauses were not there. I like the National ChargePoint Registry license and I'd much rather see an effort to make that something real and useful.

If I personally contribute data to OCM I want it to be on a real open license - not one with strings attached. I want that data to be everywhere to make every map better, not just those that can agree to the strings.
 

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This is pretty much the GPL vs BSD license question.
I think that's a fair assessment.
I'm afraid I'm in the GPL camp as commercial entities are inherently selfish. After all they exist to make profit. Nothing wrong with that but they'll never be open unless there's money in it for them (directly or indirectly). The current network providers are actively against any kind of sharing, which says it all to me.
If OCM completely opened their data, PlugShare would suck all that into their site, cementing their market place and dooming OCM to become a zombie site.

@Buzby thanks - useful. We'll do some assessing on the scale of what's required. An app is pretty time consuming unfortunately, so there's not going to be a quick win here.
 

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I think that's a fair assessment.
I'm afraid I'm in the GPL camp as commercial entities are inherently selfish. After all they exist to make profit. Nothing wrong with that but they'll never be open unless there's money in it for them (directly or indirectly). The current network providers are actively against any kind of sharing, which says it all to me.
If OCM completely opened their data, PlugShare would suck all that into their site, cementing their market place and dooming OCM to become a zombie site.
Sucking all of the OCM data into every project on the planet is a good thing, not a bad thing. That's what I want to happen to the data I contribute. Far from becoming a zombie it would thrive and I'm sure we'd see a lot more effort. Why would you contribute data anywhere else as an end user if OCM was the true source?

(And yes, I'm on the BSD side - I like to see my software used as much as possible, even if that means changes don't always get contributed back. More often than not they do, because people don't want the hassle of maintaining branches.)
 

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Sucking all of the OCM data into every project on the planet is a good thing, not a bad thing. That's what I want to happen to the data I contribute. Far from becoming a zombie it would thrive and I'm sure we'd see a lot more effort. Why would you contribute data anywhere else as an end user if OCM was the true source?
Because a @Buzby says, it's easier in PlugShare. If you're using a particular app, that's your view of the world. A typical end user doesn't care where the data came from originally.
 
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Because a @Buzby says, it's easier in PlugShare. If you're using a particular app, that's your view of the world. A typical end user doesn't care where the data came from originally.
I don't think that it matters if end users know where data came from - what matters is good reliable data in as many apps as possible, wherever it came from and whatever the business model. PS may have better data and attract user contributions, but equally the more downstream apps OCM attracts the more likely it is to attract contributions.

I guess it is too late to change, but if anyone knows of an open NCR equivalent I'd be interested to hear about it.
 

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I think where every app and database has gone wrong so far is to go for the quantity rather than quality of data. Drivers really need better quality, not more phantom locations in the middle of the North Sea.

By quality I mean both verified location, but also really useful stuff. Like exactly which RFID card I need to operate it, what the parking charges actually are, probability of ICEing, last known good use date, a real photo (not a google street view of a dumpster) etc. (PlugShare is best at this...but I'm sure can do better.)

I'd be happy with any map that had a 10th of the points the current ones do, but was actually useful and told me what I needed to know.
 
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