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Discussion Starter · #181 ·
Yes, the granny is yours, delivered with the car. Correct? The very few times I publicly charged it almost always worked, actually I have a very hard time remembering it did not. Except of course for when the charger was out of order. That obviously did not work, I even did not try.
The granny came with the car.

There's a story about grannies in france I learned about whilst at uni by a lecturer researching silly/mythical stories...

A family of 4 went camping on holiday to France with grandma. Sadly at the campsite grandma died. The kids were too young to leave behind so they decamped, packed the car up. Couldn't sit a dead grandma in the back with the kids. So wrapped her up in the tent and put her and the tent on the roof rack. They drove into the village and went into the gendarmerie. Reported the death and came out with the officer.

Only to find the car, with grandma wrapped up on the roof, all stolen.
 

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One thing I do remember. When we had the Zoë on Madeira, the hotel manager offered us to charge the car for free at the hotel using his granny charger. He had a BMW 225e. The granny charger refused to charge the Zoë. The Zoë was not provided with a Granny charger, just a Type 2 cable.

Every public charger on Madeira we put the Zoë on worked. So I must assume not all grannys are built the same...
 

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One thing I do remember. When we had the Zoë on Madeira, the hotel manager offered us to charge the car for free at the hotel using his granny charger. He had a BMW 225e. The granny charger refused to charge the Zoë. The Zoë was not provided with a Granny charger, just a Type 2 cable.

Every public charger on Madeira we put the Zoë on worked. So I must assume not all grannys are built the same...
More łikely, not all hotels are adequately earthed according to the very exacting standards that the Zoe demands.
 

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More łikely, not all hotels are adequately earthed according to the very exacting standards that the Zoe demands.
.
You think ? Well, I have the opposite experience with the e-208.

When we first had it, we were using only the granny charger delivered with the car. I put it in a socket on our garden house. It was very happy and charging away.

Then I decided to get an EVSE and purchased the OpenEVSE kit from the OpenEnergyMonitor gang (UK). I stuck it in the same socket and... it reported "no ground" and refused to charge the car. I investigated and was shocked to find that the electrician who refurbished the electricity in the garden house 6 years earlier forgot to connect the ground wire to the socket.... I've had no ground on that socket for six years, the certification inspector hadn't noticed - what am I paying for ?? Anyway, the granny charger or the e-208 did not care about having no ground... so much for having a type B RCD to make things "safe".
 

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The granny came with the car.

There's a story about grannies in france I learned about whilst at uni by a lecturer researching silly/mythical stories...

A family of 4 went camping on holiday to France with grandma. Sadly at the campsite grandma died. The kids were too young to leave behind so they decamped, packed the car up. Couldn't sit a dead grandma in the back with the kids. So wrapped her up in the tent and put her and the tent on the roof rack. They drove into the village and went into the gendarmerie. Reported the death and came out with the officer.

Only to find the car, with grandma wrapped up on the roof, all stolen.
Did they save on funeral costs? Usually more than the value of an average car these days.

.. hey, just asking!! Ricky Gervais would have the same question, I am sure.
 

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One thing I do remember. When we had the Zoë on Madeira, the hotel manager offered us to charge the car for free at the hotel using his granny charger. He had a BMW 225e. The granny charger refused to charge the Zoë. The Zoë was not provided with a Granny charger, just a Type 2 cable.

Every public charger on Madeira we put the Zoë on worked. So I must assume not all grannys are built the same...
Didn't the early Zoe have a minimum charge rate that was higher than a granny could supply? I seem to remember something of the sort though as I've never had one I don't know.
 

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.
You think ? Well, I have the opposite experience with the e-208.

When we first had it, we were using only the granny charger delivered with the car. I put it in a socket on our garden house. It was very happy and charging away.

Then I decided to get an EVSE and purchased the OpenEVSE kit from the OpenEnergyMonitor gang (UK). I stuck it in the same socket and... it reported "no ground" and refused to charge the car. I investigated and was shocked to find that the electrician who refurbished the electricity in the garden house 6 years earlier forgot to connect the ground wire to the socket.... I've had no ground on that socket for six years, the certification inspector hadn't noticed - what am I paying for ?? Anyway, the granny charger or the e-208 did not care about having no ground... so much for having a type B RCD to make things "safe".
That was kind of my point - we're agreeing. The Zoe runs tighter earthing checks (earth impedance) than other cars. Normal granny chargers don't really care. The OpenEVSE does all sorts of extra checks.
 

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Sorry for my “Dutch” use of language, I was not disagreeing. The “You think?” comment is something like “Interesting”. I have driven the Zoë but I know little about it. Just that it did not work with another car’s granny charger. Which I thought was relevant to this discussion.

I thought it was odd the Zoë did not come with a granny (I did not check the roof). But then again, I learnt afterwards that 22kW AC charging on Madeira was free everywhere…so why charge at home?
 

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About an hour later on one descent we saw the most amazing thing - recharging rate just climbing and climbing. Normally in the UK my kona hovers around 4 (down to 3.3 in winter and up to 4.5 in summer. When I saw it go up to 16m/kwh I thought this was ridiculous.
Did it ever stop counting (when the battery wasn't full)? We found there was a limit to how high the number would go: Electric Roadtrip: Kona to California
--Julian
 

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I've done this partly for my own satisfaction but also to help answer the questions around whether one needs to be concerned about the 64k battery. The simple answer is no, providing you start with enough battery power the Kona excels at predictability. We have driven the Kona up every hill or mountain we can find. We have driven the Kona as much as we have wanted each day - swapping drivers, and never once have we had a concern over our range.

Never once. Let that sink in. Never once.
I can second this, having driven my Kona over 700km and 800km, on several consecutive days of road trips. I've also routinely driven it at home a round trip distance over 400km, with one charge on the road. The 64kWh battery is just fine.

But that's because the Kona is a small car and very efficient. The Ioniq 5 is a larger car, and a larger battery, because it's not as efficient. So 64kWh may not be a big enough battery for every vehicle, but the Kona does really well with it.
--Julian
 

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Firstly we never pushed the mileage, perhaps maximum of 200km per day. So with the kona easily able to do 300 perhaps 350km, even at motorway speeds we never put ourselves or the car to maximum stress.
I can second this. 350km is the max you want to ever plan on taking the Kona at highway speeds. It's better to go 200-250km and charge up from 10-20% to about 60-70% and then go another 200km or so. Better to give yourself some margin for error/problems, and keep your charging stops shorter too.
--Julian
 

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I just watched a video by a Canadian journalist who loves the Ioniq 5 and ordered one after doing a 4000 km test. He proposes to keep the speed at or below 110 km/h. He still managed a 300 km range at temperatures well below zero. That is impressive.
I can tell you that in Canadian winters, a 100% charged Kona will go at least 300km, probably closer to 350. Depends exactly how much highway driving you do, and at what speed, and what temperature you set the cabin. But 300 is no problem at all. I've done round trips of 300 in the winter with no charging, and had range left over at the end.
--Julian
 

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Discussion Starter · #195 ·
More łikely, not all hotels are adequately earthed according to the very exacting standards that the Zoe demands.
Very interesting. With the kona fires it makes me wonder if inadequate grounding or something related to electricity supply that say the kona is not rigorous enough in its checking... yes, I know it's down as a battery fault... but perhaps it takes two to tango.

Please shoot me down in flames (sic).
 

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...
Please shoot me down in flames (sic).
No Andy, never :)

Very interesting. With the kona fires it makes me wonder if inadequate grounding or something related to electricity supply that say the kona is not rigorous enough in its checking... yes, I know it's down as a battery fault... but perhaps it takes two to tango.
Agreed, an earth fault may cause a fire, but I believe the first thought on the manufacturer's minds is to not kill the client with a 400V DC electrocution.

Note EVSE suppliers require the RCD to be of a type B, so it also senses DC earth faults, which "normal" RCDs are incapable of. I survived a number of 220 Volt AC shocks, but I'm sure a 220 V DC shock would kill me. DC is dangerous at higher voltages. 48 Volt is still OK - today's mild hybrids - but you should not try to get too much higher for safety. I once touched a terminal on a Discobar Power amplifier I was repairing, 120 V DC, that was almost the end of me, nasty! 400 V DC is sure to kill you. From that angle, EVs are very dangerous things. I think people don't always appreciate that.
 

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No Andy, never :)


Agreed, an earth fault may cause a fire, but I believe the first thought on the manufacturer's minds is to not kill the client with a 400V DC electrocution.

Note EVSE suppliers require the RCD to be of a type B, so it also senses DC earth faults, which "normal" RCDs are incapable of. I survived a number of 220 Volt AC shocks, but I'm sure a 220 V DC shock would kill me. DC is dangerous at higher voltages. 48 Volt is still OK - today's mild hybrids - but you should not try to get too much higher for safety. I once touched a terminal on a Discobar Power amplifier I was repairing, 120 V DC, that was almost the end of me, nasty! 400 V DC is sure to kill you. From that angle, EVs are very dangerous things. I think people don't always appreciate that.
It's the current that kills you. You can survive a lightning strike of 30,000 volts because the current is so low. Just under 2 Amps at 12 volts will kill you stone dead.
 

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It's the current that kills you. You can survive a lightning strike of 30,000 volts because the current is so low. Just under 2 Amps at 12 volts will kill you stone dead.
Absolutely correct.

The higher the voltage, the higher the current in a certain setting. I was merely referring to practical situations. If you stand on a wet floor with bare feet and touch a 12 Volt battery terminal while the other terminal is in the water, you are not likely to die. If you stand on rubber shoes on a dry floor and touch the positive 400 Volt terminal of a battery, you may die. I'm not going to test that to prove my case :).
 

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Discussion Starter · #199 ·
This morning we left Carcassonne. Over the three days we have walked our asses off around the old town and the medieval city. As far as vegan food though Carcassonne is in its infancy. We ended up cooking some fabulous pasta with mushroom & courgette. I got a bit drunk on too much armagnac (not driving soo not an issue.) The EV granny charge finished yesterday morning. Still waiting for the refund after they deducted the standard 25euros. It will appear.

We had a messy start driving out of Carcassonne but dropped in at a E.Leclerc hyperstore for some vino. I mean we're heading to Bordeaux, possibly a wine capital of the world and we're stocking up on wine? Well, we're odd if nothing else.

We wanted a charging stop just beyond Toulouse. That proved problematic - raised voices even. We just wanted a small top up charge while having lunch. The two services we stopped at both had just one charger - and they were both in use. The first services had only just plugged in. Where we eventually charged was the Aire De Garonne. And this is interesting.

Firstly the only reason we knew there was a charger there at all was the motorway sign 2km away with a symbol of the EV charging point. This services is actually on the south side, so perhaps that's why chargemap didn't even recognise it's existence.

As I say the charger was in use but I at least needed a toilet break, what with heated words and all. But by time I got back the BMW x3 (wash my mouth out with soap) decided he'd roll away and we plugged in. The screen wasn't easy to ready, wasn't in English and was partly obliterated by a dialogue box asking for username & password.

But it worked. It worked. By golly it worked. This 50kw point pushed out a steady 48kw charging rate. So we had our lunch under a clear blue sky at around 25degrees with some shade, happy as larry and it was as if we never even argued.

Remember we are awaiting a battery replacement, so our car has been limited to 90% charge. Thus our range is not as good as I hope it soon will be. One day... But for today I wanted to push the speedo and therefore a top up charge was welcome.

For now we're in Bordeaux and arrived with 18% SOC. Later had a fabulous vegan meal at Ici La Terre. This is no up-market joint but a couple of buddha bowls packed with nutrition - and mine with a fab variety of mushrooms. I just wish it hadn't had some avocado in my bowl. My wife loves avocado. But I'd be happy if I never had any ever again. I've probably eaten as much avocado during this Spanish and French holiday as I've had in the rest of my entire life (just shy of 70 years). An experience I don't intend to repeat.

One big day tomorrow starting with Bordeaux' roman ampitheatre remains. Lots more walking. The best way to understand a city is on foot. Well, this one is helped with its great supertram network and that's how we'll get to the ampitheatre.

Final thought for tonight. The tidal flow on the river garonne going upstream was totally extraordinary.
 

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Andy thank you for all your interesting charging stories
Which card/app has had the most use ?
Which card/app you thought you would use, has been mostly untouched, or was total pants
Where you getting high miles/kWh than home or about the same(and roughly what)

What was your Andrex-Moment level of SOC .... ie not getting below 15% ? (or you might need some Andrex

It's been fun "following" your trip, the foodie items in particular too make us all "wish we were there"
Cheers
 
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