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would you consider this the EVO 16 or EVO 32 when looking to have a home charger installed

  • Yes - deffinitely

    Votes: 6 25.0%
  • No - deffinitely not

    Votes: 4 16.7%
  • Yes - when it gets grant approval

    Votes: 5 20.8%
  • Maybe - would need more information

    Votes: 9 37.5%
6K views 32 replies 15 participants last post by  mgboyes 
#1 ·
Hi, my name is Chris, the owner of EV chargers direct ltd a new UK company

we have two new chargers coming to market in the next couple of months please see the photos attached of one installed at my house. just wanted some feedback on the unit if possible?.

its: mode 3, type 2 socket, built in type A RCD, 230v 1-phase 16 amp or 32 amp charge (3.6kw or 7kw), key lock, led display, lights around edge showing charge status too, wall mountable, metal back and sides and acrylic front. will be around the £350 + vat price. we have applied to get it approved from the 'office for low emission vehicles' (so will be able to use grant with it) but that is not confirmed yet I will update if and when we get approval.

please let me know what you all think of the look, price, features etc. our website is being built, www.evchargersdirect.co.uk

you can also email me for documents, more info etc at info@evchargersdirect.co.uk

Thank you,
 

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#5 ·
Hey

Find this funny - I was looking at chargers as I'm about to get an EV (only 2 other people have EVs on our estate) and thought that many of the charger designs are a bit rubbish so I was thinking about how I would change things.

Anyway...

I cannot currently view the website. I'm getting a site not found notice.

I really like your attempt to try and make a better looking charger. It looks a compact design and I like glowing things in sleek cases so you seem on the right track for me at least. As well as the design the interesting thing for me would be how you're going to market it.

If I was designing a charger.....(and some of you should stop reading now)

EVs are going to soon be more widely adopted and (whisper it) a bit of a status symbol (trust me on this).

If it were me I would be designing the most middle class charger possible. Something that is easy to use, looks good and get's the neighbours talking (and then copying). EVs are also "the future" so should look like it (Hello i3). Lets face it - all a charger is actually is a glorified extension lead so why not make it a sexy extension lead? We grew up on Star Wars and Apple devices that look cool. Why can't chargers, something you will look at every day when you pull onto the drive, be cool as well?

To achieve this I would incorporate some features and ditch others of yours but keep the basic "phone" shape (you may wish to turn away now):

1) Take the plug in socket off the front - it spoils the lines of the panel. When the charge cable is in it will look worse AND what do you do with the cable once charged? People will leave it in. So why not stick in the side with an additional optional box (always up sell) that covers this and is provides a dummy faceplate matching the size of the main unit AND providing a reel system (auto reel as an upgrade) so that people can have a neat and tidy charging station (just like hozelock hoses really but for electricity).
2) With above you can create a optional claw hook that places the car end charger plug neatly next to it
3) As people generally want thing to be easy to use can't you have it auto start? (I don't know) If not could you remove the button bezel and make the button of the same plastic as the front? Perhaps even make a bigger button.
4) The front panel should be available in white and black. (I would have white as it matches the windows/soffits etc and looks more "apple" product like)
5) That logo is simply dreadful (sorry) and either needs moving to the side or preferably be re-designed
6) Replace the key with a RFID chip - Keys are old fashioned and a PITA. This would also get rid of the perspex cover flap which I think would get pretty cacked up (with a rusting screw to boot). Should be sleek.
7) Ditch the emergency stop button if you can
8) The "START" font is horrific and needs burning. Is "start" also a bit boring? Not sure if "Begin" would look better without it being too pretentious. haha.
9) Tone down the glow perhaps? You almost want a dull "pulse" than a full in your face bright glow that you could read a book by. Not sure tbh.

I got a free charger from Nissan (pod point) because none of the alternatives made me drool so personally if I was marketing something like this it should motivate me to pay more due to it either doing more and/or looking better than anything else I can buy on the market. A well designed premium product that sits squarely in the middle of the market price wise would sell like hot cakes to thousands of "anywhere UK" home owners (imo) because it appeals to peoples core instincts.

Anyway that is me. I wish you and your product all the very best.

EDIT: Credentials. Turned a boring service into something exciting and snazzy and cool and created a business from nothing to a very profitable business within 4 years. Sold it (in principle) 2 months after putting it on the market following multiple bids.
 
#8 ·
Its a real pity that the term charger is being applied to the charge outlet. So many people just dont get that the actual charger is built into their car and the device on the wall is actually a slightly complex mains outlet.
Hence why some prople think that getting a 32a outlet will enable their 3.3kw car to charge twice as fast.
I recently had a customer who referred to his cable as the charger. Thats what someone called it so thats what he called it. So when he approached me with a problem with his charger, I of course assumed he meant the device that takes mains and actually converts it to DC to charge the battery pack. But no, he had a faulty cable, and a damaged inlet socket.
 
#12 ·
I agree about the emergency stop, but the Key Lock? Some will wish to protect their supply, so having this integrated (instead of a padlock) is reasonable - but only if the key isn't captive when 'on' for those who don't need it.
Lots of people say they are concerned about someone abstracting their electricity and that they want an ability to deactivate the charge point.

But there are two responses to that
  1. By definition per wiring regs there must be an MCB somewhere that they can flip in order to do this if they really want to; and
  2. More importantly I defy anyone to name a single occasion where this has ever happened for a private residential dwelling. If someone parked on your drive and plugged into your charge point you'd be way more angry about the trespass than the £1 of electricity they'd get.
Also continuing the list of pointless features, what the heck is a "start" button? How does that interact with scheduled charging? Do you have to press it when you plug the car in, even though charging won't actually be happening until 8 hours later.

I'm sorry but the whole thing seems to have been designed by a committee of people who have no experience of actually charging an EV, and the build quality looks amateur. Seriously - little bits of cut acrylic that you slide to the side to access the stop button and key lock, held in place just by a plain old bolt and split washer? What is the IP protection rating when those aren't in the closed position? Jeez.

Sorry @EV Chargers Direct I am not trying to be mean; I just don't think you have a viable business selling this product at £350 + VAT per unit.

Go buy an ABL charge point and a Tesla Wall Connector and look at them both really carefully. That's where you need to be aiming at and this product is way off as it stands. The Tesla unit with a tethered 7m cable is only £13 more than your price.

For me the one thing I'd want to change on both of those products (the ABL and the Wall Connector) is to have a dip switch inside that turns off all the lights (except for error states). The 13A socket on the front of my house doesn't have lights on it; why should the EV chargepoint have them?
 
#13 ·
Sorry @EV Chargers Direct I am not trying to be mean; I just don't think you have a viable business selling this product at £350 + VAT per unit.
This is the un-subsidised price. The ABL chargers seem to be about twice this for the basic hardware (though not easy to find un-subsidised UK price). However, the Rolec 32A type-2 un-tethered version is available for about £275 + VAT.
 
#15 ·
It would be nice if they responded, I agree.

Yes, you can trip one of multiple breakers that might isolate the unit, but if you believe this is only wanted to prevent unauthorised use, think again. If the socket for whatever reason happens to be 'live' my grandchildren may be at risk by 'playing' with the unit that had pretty lights. If the cable is connected to the box, the other end will be live and could pose a risk. Far better to use key security than to hunt for the MCBin the bottom of the meter cupboard.

As Matt notes, the untethered Rolec is one of the cheapest available and whilst it doesn't have a fancy LCD screen, still does what the EV owner needs it to do!
 
#18 ·
Just out of interest who did you pass this by in development? What are your small business credentials? Do you have a sales and marketing lead?

Not having a go but I have seen many invention led businesses like yours appears to be and they all suffer from the same common issues. Sure the community will try and assist - and you can contact me by PM directly if you wish.

Wish you all the best.

BTW - your site is still down.
 
#19 ·
... If the socket for whatever reason happens to be 'live' my grandchildren may be at risk by 'playing' with the unit that had pretty lights. If the cable is connected to the box, the other end will be live and could pose a risk...
If the cable is connected to the box, the other end will be live if and only if the car has communicated with the box i.e. it is plugged in.
 
#20 ·
Great to see you are providing another choice in the market. The design is more attractive than some and I am sure there are people who will want those features.

Personally, I prefer tethered chargers and have no need for the key, display, emergency button, etc. I also want a unit to start charging when plugged in to the car - I see no point in a start button. I also suspect that wouldn't work with my supply-side home automation switch.
 
#22 ·
Yes, you can trip one of multiple breakers that might isolate the unit, but if you believe this is only wanted to prevent unauthorised use, think again. If the socket for whatever reason happens to be 'live' my grandchildren may be at risk by 'playing' with the unit that had pretty lights. If the cable is connected to the box, the other end will be live and could pose a risk. Far better to use key security than to hunt for the MCBin the bottom of the meter cupboard.
This is not how Type 2 points work. The socket can never be live until the car and chargepoint have communicated with each other and determined all is well. This is why these things are £350 not £25 - they're extremely safe and it really would not be possible for anyone's grandchildren to accidentally harm themselves this way, key or otherwise.

Also in point of fact I don't believe there's been a single child fatality due to electrocution from "playing" with a 13A socket in the UK in at least the last decade. Again, people are disproportionately worried about this compared to how much it actually happens. You are putting your kids at orders of magnitude more risk by letting them travel in the car, than by letting them play near to the car's charge point.
 
#23 ·
Also in point of fact I don't believe there's been a single child fatality due to electrocution from "playing" with a 13A socket in the UK in at least the last decade.
Somewhat off topic, but reminded me about the stupid socket covers some people fit. See FatallyFlawed
 
#26 ·
being self-righteous to a mother with a crying child (even if only with trapped fingers caught on an otherwise 'dead' socket cover) it's always the owners fault. The keylock will probably attract more than it will put off.
Agreed. Far more likely for a child to hurt themselves fiddling with the key lock and the slidey covers than receiving an electric shock, so for the sake of the little children I'd get rid of it and have the sides completely plain/flush.
 
#27 ·
I prefer a tethered charger, or at least built in storage for the cable. Don't want to get the cable out every single time. I just plug in when I get home - even if I don't need it, it's necessary for the Leaf heating timer.

And to display is just another thing to go wrong. The Rolec one I have is very simple and reliable. It won't be very readable in daylight anyway. I tested daylight readability at work for a project and those cheap blue backlit displays are hopeless.
 
#28 ·
I agree with many points above, but if you want to put a new product into the market make it either better or cheaper than your competition.
I don't think you achieved either.
I had an untethered Chargemaster but changed it to a tethered one....
200 quid inc Vat should be you RRP.....
This is achievable!
Good luck
 
#29 ·
I don't need a key, or a status light, or a display, or an emergency stop, or a start button and I want it tethered with built in storage for the cable and connector, so at the moment your product is not for me!
 
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#30 ·
With regards to price as I said earlier the price I quoted was to installers not the price the customer pays. It does not take into account the 500 pound olev grant, so once approved, will likely cost the end user 200 or less from an approved installer with the grant. The lock is fitted you can use it or not it's there as an option, it can be let switched on if you wanted. The lights will have a switch underneath you can choose on or off for lights, we have developed a tethered version too which will be available for sale in a few months. Thanks, Chris
 
#31 ·
With regards to price as I said earlier the price I quoted was to installers not the price the customer pays. It does not take into account the 500 pound olev grant, so once approved, will likely cost the end user 200 or less from an approved installer with the grant.
I think we all appreciate the way the OLEV grant works, however a Tesla Wall Connector with a 7m tethered cable is £437 inc VAT (i.e. just £13 more than your unit) on an unsubsidised basis.

And a Rolec charge point can be purchased, again unsubsidised, for a lot less than your pricepoint. For example WallPod EV : HomeCharge IEC62196 Type 2 Socket - Ev One Stop

IMO your unit needs to be priced around £200+VAT for you to have a viable business, sorry.
 
#32 ·
Charger idea...

How about a version that has TWO outputs (we have quite a few members here that either already have two EVs or PHEVs, or are talking about getting a second.

You could have, for example, a tethered Type-1 or 2 and a Type-2 socket. Then when one is in use the EV gets told it has 32A available, when a second plugs in both are reduced to 16A (the signalling spec allows this to be varied at any point through the cycle) then by measuring how much each is using you can figure out if there is more available to offer to the other socket. For example, when both are permitted 16A, and A is taking 16A with B taking 10A, reduce the B-port limit to 12A and increase A to 20A. If B increases and starts taking all 12A on offer, move back to 16A each, but you are more likely to find that B drops to 6A next which means you can give it 8A and port A 24A.

Someone will need to start building units like this if 2-car families are to switch to 100% electric drive, even if both are PHEVs. There will also be a market for controllers that can manage multiple output posts because apparently about 5% of UK households have 3 cars or more!
 
#33 ·
Completely agree, though the challenge is that if you build a single unit with two outlets you're only really appealing to people whose cars park adjacent to each other.

Up to 4 Tesla Wall Connectors can be networked together and they loadshare between them, but a pair of those is £874 which is quite expensive, and they only come in tethered Type 2.
 
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