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Discussion Starter #1
This product by MasterPlug is intended to allow house builders/developers to meet their minimum statutory obligations by including EV charging provision in every new build.... Its available retail for £50. Probably installed cost for any new build is down around the £100 or so mark, basically just a dedicated radial circuit wired up no doubt using 2.5mm2 T&E.

Datasheet is not very comprehensive, however essentially its a BS1363 3pin socket with a type B RCBO, rated 16A. Suitable for a 10A Mode 2 portable EVSE. Hopefully someone gets the chance to pull one apart and look at the RCBO!

Available here https://www.juiceelectricalsupplies.co.uk/masterplug-electric-vehicle-charger-mode-2.html
Product code: EVH132S1SP


Positives: its cheap and hopefully safe?
Negatives: all the issues regarding long term use of BS1363 plug, only suitable for charging at low rates

Thoughts, should the minimum statutory requirements be upgraded to insist on a type 2 socket outlet and a mode 3 communications?
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Also, the included type B RCBO is probably the cheapest type B available to buy (if its any good)

Buy the socket just for the type B????
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I guess the chance of making a RCBO in that format (Din Size) with true type B RCD function is next to zero.

There is possibly some mis-leading claims going on here. Of course the house developers wont care.
 

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I guess the chance of making a RCBO in that format (Din Size) with true type B RCD function is next to zero.
I found the price rather unbelievable :unsure:

I wonder if someone has been fooled by the use of 'type B' to describe both MCB and RCD characteristics. It makes searching for specific devices a nightmare and I'm sure will lead to misapplications. They had the whole alphabet to hand ... :mad:
 

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For the electrical lay person (ie me!), what’s the significance of the Type B RCD etc?

I’m having a 32A switched CEEFORM outdoor socket professionally fitted shortly, which will be earthed, to use with a OHME or similar 32A EVSE.

Should I be thinking about this RCD stuff?
 

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For the electrical lay person (ie me!), what’s the significance of the Type B RCD etc?

I’m having a 32A switched CEEFORM outdoor socket professionally fitted shortly, which will be earthed, to use with a OHME or similar 32A EVSE.

Should I be thinking about this RCD stuff?
You are right to ask. I bought a new build with a 32 amp EV charger that had been installed as part of the garage socket ring main.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Bit of a minefield!

Your electrician is probably complying with regulations if he installs the CEE socket (NOT SPECIFICALLY LABELLED AS SUITABLE FOR EV CHARGING) so that it is only protected by a type AC RCD (that's undistorted sine wave) which is what in the main will be found in every consumer unit fitted in the last 15 years,

BUT with EV charging......
 

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For the electrical lay person (ie me!), what’s the significance of the Type B RCD etc?

I’m having a 32A switched CEEFORM outdoor socket professionally fitted shortly, which will be earthed, to use with a OHME or similar 32A EVSE.

Should I be thinking about this RCD stuff?
The Ohme has internal DC RCD protection. Similar units like the Khons and Zencar do not
 

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Discussion Starter #10
So if a Developer installs one of these BS1363 EV charging designated and labelled outlets, it might be "safe" or might not be "safe" depending on the portable EVSE plugged in (using as a proxy for safe what is defined in BS7671). Bit of a disaster darlings!
 

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For the electrical lay person (ie me!), what’s the significance of the Type B RCD etc?
TypeTripping CurrentOperating Time
Type B3 To 5 time full load current0.04 To 13 Sec
Type C5 To 10 times full load current0.04 To 5 Sec
Type D10 To 20 times full load current0.04 To 3 Sec

Sauce:-
 

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TypeTripping CurrentOperating Time
Type B3 To 5 time full load current0.04 To 13 Sec
Type C5 To 10 times full load current0.04 To 5 Sec
Type D10 To 20 times full load current0.04 To 3 Sec

Sauce:-
Those are the ratings for the overcurrent protection, not the RCD.

Whoever decided to use same letters for RCD charaterisics was an idiot
 

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Hager have a useful guide and clarify that Type A RCD can be used with an EV if DC protection is integrated into the EVSE.


The unit posted by OP is Type AC as confirmed by icon on the unit. If so, it is not appropriate for EV charging. Any DC residual leakage would blind the RCD element and it would then not trip under a fault condition.
 

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Bit of a minefield!

Your electrician is probably complying with regulations if he installs the CEE socket (NOT SPECIFICALLY LABELLED AS SUITABLE FOR EV CHARGING) so that it is only protected by a type AC RCD (that's undistorted sine wave) which is what in the main will be found in every consumer unit fitted in the last 15 years,

BUT with EV charging......
I’ve told him what I will be using the socket for, he’s running a suitable cable direct from the consumer unit to the outside socket site, and will be earthing that point via a rod?

He did ask me why I wasn’t going for a dedicated EV charger, but I want to use the socket for other things as well.

He did say he was going to go and consult with colleagues who fit dedicated chargers and come up with a solution that was compliant and safe.

The Ohme has internal DC RCD protection. Similar units like the Khons and Zencar do not
It’s the OHME unit I’m purchasing, but that is purely a happy accident as I was unaware of the DC RCD thing. I guess like a lot of people you just assume that this stuff will work and be safe.
 

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It’s the OHME unit I’m purchasing, but that is purely a happy accident as I was unaware of the DC RCD thing. I guess like a lot of people you just assume that this stuff will work and be safe.
For the OHME a dedicated Type A RCD will be sufficient and the Hager ones are not expensive. IMO it should not be connected to a house RCD. Ignoring any safety issues, having it on a house RCD significantly increses risk of nuisance tripping.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Obviously this thread highlights some loopholes better described as unprotected risks.

Nothing to stop a future owner of this house plugging in a non DC protected EVSE into this CEE outlet, other more immediate scenarios can be imagined.

Meanwhile back to the MasterPlug issue, this is far more uncontrolled, potentially serious situation if mass installation of this solution proceeds. Obviously cost is key for house developers and if this device ticks the box, this is all they will instal.
 

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That socket is a very bad option for new builds as the RCD should be at the consumer unit end with at least a 32amp cable so it can be swapped for a 7kw charger. An earth rod is also needed unlike with some chargers. (An earth rod should be cheap if considered at the correct stage of the build process.)

Much better to put in a 32amp rad with 32Amp combined RCB/MCB connected to one normal outdoor 13amp socket.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Agree it's a very bad option.

At least if there was NO EV charging provision, a retrofit would have a better chance of safety and functionality.

I can imagine sitting in the Developers sales office/show house and Mr and Mrs being told tick yes it has provision for EV charging....
 
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