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e208 with ID3 Pro S Tour ordered
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I think that reflects the power of 1% BIK and M3 being in the sweet spot to compete against the company BMW/Audi etc. The super charger network is also a big factor that also nearly convinced me. I went for ID3 as I wanted a smaller hatch back for city driving that could also do long range. Don't need a car that only offers a boot and Model Y too big as well. I think in 6 to 12 months if you add up sales of all the VW Audi group MEB platform cars (Q4, ID3, ID4, Cupra, Skoda variants) they will be approaching similar monthly volumes if not already.

Choice is a really good thing for consumers though and we should celebrate!
 

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This is all due to people leasing them on employee schemes and then able to pay 1% BiK. VW also did run the extra 1k promotion if the ID3 was sold by the end of September, that pretty much wiped out in stock cars. I'm after a new EV but prices on everything are crazy at present, so sticking with my Leaf 30 kWh for a while longer.
 

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Before I got my Ioniq 5 ( will hopefully appear in the sales charts from next month?) I had test driven the Tesla M3 and I thought the fit and finish were a definite step up to what I experienced the year before when I had tried it. The MIC cars are much better built than the American built cars IMO. Come to think of it have the Americans ever been that good at building cars? They build a lot of them, thats for sure, but I don't think they have ever been as nice as the European and Japanese equivalents.
 

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Before I got my Ioniq 5 ( will hopefully appear in the sales charts from next month?) I had test driven the Tesla M3 and I thought the fit and finish were a definite step up to what I experienced the year before when I had tried it. The MIC cars are much better built than the American built cars IMO. Come to think of it have the Americans ever been that good at building cars? They build a lot of them, thats for sure, but I don't think they have ever been as nice as the European and Japanese equivalents.
and yet average age of a car in the USA is over 12 years as opposed to 8 in the UK.....
 

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and yet average age of a car in the USA is over 12 years as opposed to 8 in the UK.....
The average age in NZ is much older than this. Most are japanese made and dare I say it, better made overall than the UK fleet. Problem in UK is the dampness and rain, which causes rust and electrical issues.
 

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This is all due to people leasing them on employee schemes and then able to pay 1% BiK.
I assumed this too, but the Tesla rep told me it’s untrue as more than 50% are personal sales. I have nothing to confirm his statement though.

Certainly Tesla personal lease, PCP and even many of the salary sacrifice schemes are incredibly poor value. There are some amazing deals such as the NHS scheme, otherwise cash purchase (with or without bank loan) seemed significantly cheaper. That’s the route I took.
 

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The average age in NZ is much older than this. Most are japanese made and dare I say it, better made overall than the UK fleet. Problem in UK is the dampness and rain, which causes rust and electrical issues.
Having lived in NZ for five years, I’d say you’re half right - the climate certainly keeps the bodywork and chassis in better shape. But the other big factor is the MOT equivalent, the WOF, being massively less strict.

I’m buying an EV earlier than I expected because my Toyota Auris was burning oil due to dodgy piston rings, and failed it’s MOT on emissions. Having had very similar issues with a Toyota in NZ, I know that there the advice would have been to use a more viscous oil and top it up every month, and that would have sailed through the WOF, emissions be damned.

Similarly, vehicle inspection rules vary from state to state in the US, with some states requiring no annual inspection at all. That almost certainly pushes up the average age of the fleet.

On the flipside, the reason NZ has so many pristine second hand Japanese cars is because the Japanese MOT equivalent is apparently so strict (particularly around emissions) that it’s expensive to get them through once the cars are out of warranty, so they get traded in, and ultimately exported.
 

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That's a good point, although Gas is going up more, and petrol/diesel has:
1. A distribution issue which electricity doesn't have
2. Electricity has multiple ways of generation, including renewables. Petrol/Diesel only has one source, and a small number of countries

Lastly, there is a push to get people to use electricity off-peak, as it cheaper overall in terms of evening out the supply. Things like Octopus's off-peak tariff will become more widespread, and stay much lower cost then fossil few for many years to come
Have you seen the new customer rates for energy now? A lot (everyone) is going to get a huge shock when their contract comes to an end……at the moment best to just choose a normal rate as it’s capped and the cheapest option.
 

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I think the Tesla build quality issues, like ID.3 software problems, are now a legacy thing with the MIC cars. There seems to have been a real step change.

I’m not surprised by the sales numbers for the M3 (boat arrivals notwithstanding), they’re by far the most common EV I see out on the roads.

Anybody remember when the Leaf was seemingly the only EV out there?!
I see plenty of Teslas around, but I see more ID3s since August - there's 5 new ones in the neighbouring streets to ours and they're all Manganese grey. There's a 3 year old Leaf on our street too, and a Merc EV.
 

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Have you seen the new customer rates for energy now? A lot (everyone) is going to get a huge shock when their contract comes to an end……at the moment best to just choose a normal rate as it’s capped and the cheapest option.
I also think that the "off peak" electricity rates like Octopus GO will die off as EV ownership grows, at some point there'll be no such thing as off peak as electricity demands at night will be very high, rivalling daytime demands outside "teatime". Each average mileage driver will be needing 12 kWh per day on average just to poor their cars. That's about as much as we use for the house oer day.
 

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I also think that the "off peak" electricity rates like Octopus GO will die off as EV ownership grows, at some point there'll be no such thing as off peak as electricity demands at night will be very high, rivalling daytime demands outside "teatime". Each average mileage driver will be needing 12 kWh per day on average just to poor their cars. That's about as much as we use for the house oer day.
on the basis an average car charge from 20% needs 4-5 hours at 7kw, I would say that putting the car on when you get home, or when you go to sleep, can miss all or much of the 12:30-4:30 window

what I am saying is that unless you put on a timer, casual charging in the evening will not hit the off peak times

therefore if energy companies have any interest in evening out the load, they have to incentivise off peak charging.
 

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I see plenty of Teslas around, but I see more ID3s since August - there's 5 new ones in the neighbouring streets to ours and they're all Manganese grey. There's a 3 year old Leaf on our street too, and a Merc EV.
Yeah, I’ve seen more ID.3s around lately too, along with a general increase in the spotting of all EVs, but Tesla are still mighty common on my journeys.

It’s all good stuff, but I admit to surprise at being the only one on a bank of 6 Ionity chargers the other evening. I suppose we’re getting out of peak holiday season now though.
 

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on the basis an average car charge from 20% needs 4-5 hours at 7kw, I would say that putting the car on when you get home, or when you go to sleep, can miss all or much of the 12:30-4:30 window

what I am saying is that unless you put on a timer, casual charging in the evening will not hit the off peak times

therefore if energy companies have any interest in evening out the load, they have to incentivise off peak charging.
I suppose they will still need to offer a reduced overnight window to spread the load, but we'll have to adjust our terminology because if there are at least 1/3 of households using it in future, we won'tbe able to call it off peak any more - presumably.10am to 3pm Mon toFri will become the new off-peak, when kids are at school and many will be at work.
 

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Yeah, I’ve seen more ID.3s around lately too, along with a general increase in the spotting of all EVs, but Tesla are still mighty common on my journeys.

It’s all good stuff, but I admit to surprise at being the only one on a bank of 6 Ionity chargers the other evening. I suppose we’re getting out of peak holiday season now though.
With the likes of more ID3s on the road, I think we're seeing more genuine take up of public EVs - I bet far more ID3s are bought/PCP'd/leased privately than Teslas, which I presume are generally coming from the company car pool, with the tax incentives currently being offered with EV company cars.

When people start funding EVs with their own money, you can see that people are wanting to change because they can benefit from the current advantages of having an EV. Hopefully the Government won't pull those advantages too soon (no VED, grants etc ). Imust admit though, I still wouldn't have an EV if I couldn't charge at home.
 

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e208 with ID3 Pro S Tour ordered
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With the likes of more ID3s on the road, I think we're seeing more genuine take up of public EVs - I bet far more ID3s are bought/PCP'd/leased privately than Teslas, which I presume are generally coming from the company car pool, with the tax incentives currently being offered with EV company cars.

When people start funding EVs with their own money, you can see that people are wanting to change because they can benefit from the current advantages of having an EV. Hopefully the Government won't pull those advantages too soon (no VED, grants etc ). Imust admit though, I still wouldn't have an EV if I couldn't charge at home.
I think charging from home is essential. I can't imagine relying on public charging 100% given reliability and availability. Solving the charging issues for those that can't charge at home is going to be a huge challenge to increased EV take up. I can see my council attaching a few planning application notices to lamp posts for EV chargers but they will need to be everywhere and at an affordable price per kWh.

I think the leasing model is made for EVs as it negates the extra purchasing cost burden over an ICE car even for private purchasers or those with small companies. Agreed I believe a lot of the new EVs we are seeing are being driven by 1% BIK/charging at work/salary sacrifice and that incentive to EV take up seems to be working. In Norway they also removed/lowered the VAT on purchase of an EV and have a whole raft of other incentives from use of bus lanes to some free city centre parking. Charging at work is big too.

I also worry that incentives for private individuals are being downgraded at the time when the opposite should be the case and are tipped unfairly to favour company car drivers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Looking at the UK. Utility prices including electricity are going up significantly, council tax is predicted to rise significantly, government debt is huge which will effect public sector wages, inflation is rising. People will increasingly be short of money, whatever the fuzzy headed fool says.
EV prices need to drop significantly to make them affordable to most people. With car sales dropping, effecting manufacturers profits and serious environmental issues to be addressed quickly the only real way out is substantial government subsidy around EV purchases, charger installation and even charger juice pricing.
Will the UK government step up to the plate? Or is it all talk and posturing??
 

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Looking at the UK. Utility prices including electricity are going up significantly, council tax is predicted to rise significantly, government debt is huge which will effect public sector wages, inflation is rising. People will increasingly be short of money, whatever the fuzzy headed fool says.
EV prices need to drop significantly to make them affordable to most people. With car sales dropping, effecting manufacturers profits and serious environmental issues to be addressed quickly the only real way out is substantial government subsidy around EV purchases, charger installation and even charger juice pricing.
Will the UK government step up to the plate? Or is it all talk and posturing??
I think that many employees of private companies are having it worse than public sector employees right now - a small pay rise is better than no pay rise. I haven't had a pay rise in 3 years, despite increasing responsibilities, yet I work in a pretty buoyant and recession proof industry (Pharma).

Everyone's getting squeezed a bit at the moment, but those at the lower end are having their non-disposable income squeezed hard.
 

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I feel it is a kind of golden age of EVs now. £2500 government grant, £350 charger grant (expiring this month), no car tax, no congestion charge in London (until 2025), free charging (Westfield, Tesco, Costco, Bicester SV, etc.), and many best parking positions in lots if you are EV charging.

All of this will go away soon. That's one of the reasons I bought now. I am sure when we go over the critical threshold for EV ownership, which could be in the next few years, the government will have to work out how to get its petrol/diesel tax and car tax back. Its just inevitable.

Of course the government could decide to slim itself down, kill the quangos, foreign money spends and all the baggage. But unlikely unfortunately.
 

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Looking at the UK. Utility prices including electricity are going up significantly, council tax is predicted to rise significantly, government debt is huge which will effect public sector wages, inflation is rising. People will increasingly be short of money, whatever the fuzzy headed fool says.
EV prices need to drop significantly to make them affordable to most people. With car sales dropping, effecting manufacturers profits and serious environmental issues to be addressed quickly the only real way out is substantial government subsidy around EV purchases, charger installation and even charger juice pricing.
Will the UK government step up to the plate? Or is it all talk and posturing??
I think it is safe to assume on the basis of all evidence that the current UK gov is all talk and posturing.

The legacy car makers need to sell cars to stay in business (obviously) but they also need to sell EVs into Europe to avoid being hammered by fleet CO2 emissions fines.

The lead times for EVs at the moment suggest demand is still relatively strong whilst supply is limited by the chip shortage. When demand drops as inflation bites car makers cannot prioritise cheaper ICE over EV without picking up large emissions fines. No doubt car makers will lobby hard for the fines to be waived, but if that fails they may need to discount EVs to maintain demand (IIRC VW discounted the ID3 at the end of 2020 for this reason).
 
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