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Solar, Powerwall, Nissan Xstor, NEC DSS installer
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Discussion Starter #1
I've registered, just had my confirmation, more as its something I want to be an installer of and have a lot of clients that this would be a great idea for but for all you Leaf 40 people this could be a bit of a game changer.

As I understand it only the Leaf 40 is V2G enabled although at the moment its not enabled in UK unless your on the Enel V2G trial.

OVO Vehicle-to-Grid Charger | OVO Energy
 

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I've registered, just had my confirmation, more as its something I want to be an installer of and have a lot of clients that this would be a great idea for but for all you Leaf 40 people this could be a bit of a game changer.

As I understand it only the Leaf 40 is V2G enabled although at the moment its not enabled in UK unless your on the Enel V2G trial.

OVO Vehicle-to-Grid Charger | OVO Energy
OVO say, 'Any second generation LEAF (2013 onwards) is compatible.'
I have solar panels so somewhere read that would exclude me. Anyone confirm or deny that?
V2H as well would be handy for power cuts and energy storage from the solar panels.
 

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Solar, Powerwall, Nissan Xstor, NEC DSS installer
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216 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
OVO say, 'Any second generation LEAF (2013 onwards) is compatible.'
I have solar panels so somewhere read that would exclude me. Anyone confirm or deny that?
V2H as well would be handy for power cuts and energy storage from the solar panels.
Might be wrong but I read it the other way round that they were looking for people with Solar and a Leaf
 

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Solar, Powerwall, Nissan Xstor, NEC DSS installer
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216 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
OVO say, 'Any second generation LEAF (2013 onwards) is compatible.'
I have solar panels so somewhere read that would exclude me. Anyone confirm or deny that?
V2H as well would be handy for power cuts and energy storage from the solar panels.
Had a look at the list again and it says 2nd Gen Leaf (which is the 2018 version) so think its a typo, I know the 2018 has a bi-directional inverter which is whats required to export back to the house.
 

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Solar, Powerwall, Nissan Xstor, NEC DSS installer
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Discussion Starter #7
Would make a lot more sense, considering the idea behind the whole thing..
I'm guessing that they will be wanting people with the car for obvious reasons but solar as its OLEV / BEIS / Innovate fund trial so they are after people to participate at low cost not really interested in selling systems as they will want as many people participating as possible so will be trying to keep costs down.

Interested to see if they are looking for home batteries aswell or of they only purely want V2G with solar though.
 

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Solar, Powerwall, Nissan Xstor, NEC DSS installer
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Discussion Starter #9

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I know the 2018 has a bi-directional inverter which is whats required to export back to the house.
I thought the OVO unit was CHAdeMO DC so just connected directly to the battery?
 

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OVO say "Indra Renewables Technologies Limited (one of the OVO group companies) will own the charger throughout the trial" so be aware you don't get to keep it for free. Do Indra make the charger?
 

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Solar, Powerwall, Nissan Xstor, NEC DSS installer
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Discussion Starter #12
OVO say "Indra Renewables Technologies Limited (one of the OVO group companies) will own the charger throughout the trial" so be aware you don't get to keep it for free. Do Indra make the charger?
Low-Medium Volume for OEMs and Car Makers - Indra - Custom Electric Vehicle Specialists

No don't think so they seem to be a bunch of car industry guys specialising in small volume manufacture so I suspect they will have sourced through other suppliers, might have made the packaging though. I would be surprised if it isn't someone like Delta Electronics as they supply a lot of OEM inverters and supply lots of unbranded stuff.
 

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Regarding OVO's V2G does anyone know whether if you put your kettle on for a cup of tea while the car is busy exporting to the grid, do you get your power from the car too or is the kettle use still metered? Or in other words, does this V2G system also provide V2H?
 

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OK I’ve signed up too. The sign up page has actually been around on the OVO site for a couple of months but could only be found by searching....looks like they have launched it now. My big question is how it will affect the milage on your lease.....all battery use causes some degridation. Interestingly OVO make this comment

“We are working closely with Nissan to ensure that no battery degradation is caused by V2G charging beyond what would be expected from normal charging using a standard EV home charge point. We continue to work with Nissan to make sure that during our trial, your existing warranty will remain unaffected.”
 

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This is one of the best explanations I’ve found on charge rate, temperature and depth of charge effects on battery life. You can see that if cycling “gently” at medium DOC the degridation is some orders of magnitude less than “rapid charging”. Typical home battery systems only need to be 5kWhr for “peak shaving” so I think Nissan might let them get away with it. I bet there are going to be a lot of rules and fine tuning in the control algorithm to operate in the sweet spot without impacting desired range. http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries
 

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Solar, Powerwall, Nissan Xstor, NEC DSS installer
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Discussion Starter #17
Had a bit of a Twitter chat with them today, the unit is a 6kW bi-directional inverter. Its connected by the Chademo port directly to the battery on DC bus. I highly suspect that the reason its limited to 6kW is as the vehicle is static they wont have any cooling airflow- all went a bit quiet when I asked that.

As its only a 6kW draw its unlikely to have any effect on teh battery as that level of draw / charge input doesn't increase the battery temp significantly and thats what would effect the battery life.

Regarding OVO's V2G does anyone know whether if you put your kettle on for a cup of tea while the car is busy exporting to the grid, do you get your power from the car too or is the kettle use still metered? Or in other words, does this V2G system also provide V2H?
Yes the unit would be connected onto the same feed as your main board so any inputs it would be adding back in would lower the load on your connection by effectively feeding your house.

I’m also very interested in V2G. I found a contact on the OVO forum that seemed to know what he was talking about. He seemed to suggest V2G would have to wait for the release of the second generation smart meters.
That sort of depends on how they are going to operate, if all they did was turn the unit on the V2G charger could meter the reverse supply and will no doubt be comms connected so it could report how much was injected back in by the unit. What I'm not clear on yet is if they are operating as a reverse feed doing demand response or if they are doing something like frequency response with a proportional feed to grid frequency shift which woudl need much more control and metering. I suspect its just demand response on / off at 1 power level or maybe some arbitrage of power rates to balance OVO's balancing requirements within a regions power demand
 

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Good points Solarphil. I’m also wondering how frequency response could work on a house connected by a single phase. Would you need to be controlling 3 houses on separate phases on a millisecond response for that to work? Frequency response is the most profitable service from what I’ve read.
 

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Will AC charging and DC output work at the same time using CHAdeMO? Just wondered if you can charge the battery from solar whilst also exporting? I guess not....
 

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Solar, Powerwall, Nissan Xstor, NEC DSS installer
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Discussion Starter #20
Good points Solarphil. I’m also wondering how frequency response could work on a house connected by a single phase. Would you need to be controlling 3 houses on separate phases on a millisecond response for that to work? Frequency response is the most profitable service from what I’ve read.
It a good point not really thought that far into the technicality, the FFR stuff we've been involved in has been 3ph so not considered it but in theory I believe so but in practice could be complicated.

Dynamic FFR would most likely be the service they would go for thats a proportional response to frequency shift (either up or down) past a dead band zone of 0.015Hz either side of 50Hz so at 49.985Hz you would export at 50w (thats probably the minimum the unit could do) on a linear increase to 6kW at 49.5Hz, the response time is automated by monitoring local frequency.

I think the response time of milliseconds is only in relation to Enhanced FFR which is a limited requirement (200MW currently). Static FFR is another possibility but thats a response of sub 10 seconds with a full load response so 6kW straight away. Each of the services has procurement limits and most are currently fully subscribed. To partake you also must provide 1MW minimum of response so they would have to install into region of 160 units.
 
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