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Discussion Starter #1
Hi All.

Thought it was worthwhile providing an update on the V2G project as a few things have changed recently.

For anyone not aware, indra.co.uk (my company to declare interest) along with our partners OVO Energy, Nissan and Cenex are giving away 1,000 V2G Chargers (and install) to LEAF and ENV200 drivers completely free of charge as part of an Innovate UK part funded project.

The Tariff from OVO has recently changed to give £75 upfront (to cover increased usage in the first month) and now paying a very generous 30p / kWh for exports back to the grid (26p if you have solar/other generation). The tariff is 2 year fixed and also gives polar plus membership (or a smart charger but unlikely to take that with the V2G).

The project is to demonstrate how EVs will integrate with the grid in the future, trading energy stored in your cars battery and ultimately making the grid greener, more stable and saving money on energy bills.

For more information and to sign up visit http://bit.ly/OVO-V2G-Trial.
If you have any questions contact [email protected].

To show some real world usage, in the pictures is my personal July and August energy bill with a 24kWh LEAF, a few screengrabs from the app for August and a random day to show the data/usage.

The August bill is on the old tariff (import rate+6p for exports). Under the new tariff:

- 302kWh exported from house.

- Cost of that energy on my rate is 302 x 13.72p = £41.43

- At the new 30p import rate, 302kWh is £90.60 (v2g export credit line on bill)

- £49.17 profit.


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Mike, who is working with EDF on V2G? I asked them about it but they only have business trial at the moment.

Still don't have a smartmeter and happy with the EDF Go Electric.

- Leaf 30 kWh
Sent from mobile phone so please mind the typos
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Mike, who is working with EDF on V2G? I asked them about it but they only have business trial at the moment.

Still don't have a smartmeter and happy with the EDF Go Electric.

- Leaf 30 kWh
Sent from mobile phone so please mind the typos
I think Nuvve but in the UK, only business/ fleet trials at the moment - https://www.e-flex.co.uk/

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I was very sceptical about the trial benefits initially, but think the new offering swings it the other way. I've now said ill go ahead with my install so need to sell my i3 and get a leaf!

My only gripe currently is that even though we can keep the v2g charger, I've been told it will revert to a dumb unit at the end of the trial which can only charge.

@mike it seems like a waste of expensive government funded hardware if this is the case. Is there a simple way if controlling the charger once its not tied into the ovo systems? It would be really good if we could finish the trial with a simple web portal or even the comms specs so we can set up our own timers etc.

Basically I want to use the v2g features for many years, not just 2 years, with ovo or maybe switch to another provider (octopus) who will continue paying a feed in tariff (they are happy to have v2g on their octopus "outgoing" smart export guarantee tarrif).

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I was very sceptical about the trial benefits initially, but think the new offering swings it the other way. I've now said ill go ahead with my install so need to sell my i3 and get a leaf!

My only gripe currently is that even though we can keep the v2g charger, I've been told it will revert to a dumb unit at the end of the trial which can only charge.

@mike it seems like a waste of expensive government funded hardware if this is the case. Is there a simple way if controlling the charger once its not tied into the ovo systems? It would be really good if we could finish the trial with a simple web portal or even the comms specs so we can set up our own timers etc.

Basically I want to use the v2g features for many years, not just 2 years, with ovo or maybe switch to another provider (octopus) who will continue paying a feed in tariff (they are happy to have v2g on their octopus "outgoing" smart export guarantee tarrif).

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Who advised that the charger will revert to dumb?

I think that is highly unlikely. Internal discussions we have had all align with it continuing to be optimised after the trial - afterall it makes money for you and the energy company.


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Who advised that the charger will revert to dumb?

I think that is highly unlikely. Internal discussions we have had all align with it continuing to be optimised after the trial - afterall it makes money for you and the energy company.


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Hi Alex,


That's great! Thanks for letting us know.


I can confirm that the nominal fee of 1p will indeed mean that you own the charger once the trial is finished, although it will function only as a regular EV charger as it will no longer be connected to our platforms.


Once you have your supply start date with OVO Energy, just let us know and we'll be able to look at getting all the necessary work booked in.


Kind regards,

Douglas
Kaluza Support

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Discussion Starter #7
Hi Alex,


That's great! Thanks for letting us know.


I can confirm that the nominal fee of 1p will indeed mean that you own the charger once the trial is finished, although it will function only as a regular EV charger as it will no longer be connected to our platforms.


Once you have your supply start date with OVO Energy, just let us know and we'll be able to look at getting all the necessary work booked in.


Kind regards,

Douglas
Kaluza Support

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i'll find out

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How annoying they are now accepting eNV’s. I was accepted for the trial a while back, but couldn’t take it up as I’d changed my Leaf to an eNV. I’ve just switched my feed tariff to Octopus and also signed up for their outgoing Octopus so can’t take it up now even if they come back to me.
 

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I'm currently without an EV, but was debating on the 40kWh leaf or waiting until next year for the Corsa-e. My daily electricity usage is very low, so joining this trial would be just for the export generation benefit.

1. of the August bill above. how much of the import is actually consumed by the house vs exported. The difference is £30, so I think based on my usage(ignoring any EV charging) I would have no actual financial benefit.
2. Who controls the real time export kW: User or OVO? Can I keep charging the car to 80% and discharging down to 20%? Based on that pattern would my export be higher than your August bill?
3. How could I plan to have the car at 100% before I leave the house. Its no good exporting the battery down to a few kWh, then needing to drive 100 miles!
4. What is the lead time, and do I need to switch to OVO at a fixed rate for some time before the kit is installed.
 

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Thought it was worthwhile providing an update on the V2G project as a few things have changed recently.
Hi - a couple of questions-

Is this worthwhile if you do not have any form of electric generation?

It is generally advised not to regularly charge over 80% (Leaf 24), so would charging to 100% be to further degrade the battery?
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I'm currently without an EV, but was debating on the 40kWh leaf or waiting until next year for the Corsa-e. My daily electricity usage is very low, so joining this trial would be just for the export generation benefit.

1. of the August bill above. how much of the import is actually consumed by the house vs exported. The difference is £30, so I think based on my usage(ignoring any EV charging) I would have no actual financial benefit.
2. Who controls the real time export kW: User or OVO? Can I keep charging the car to 80% and discharging down to 20%? Based on that pattern would my export be higher than your August bill?
3. How could I plan to have the car at 100% before I leave the house. Its no good exporting the battery down to a few kWh, then needing to drive 100 miles!
4. What is the lead time, and do I need to switch to OVO at a fixed rate for some time before the kit is installed.
e-corsa will likely be cheaper but leaf with the v2g benefit and likelt generally more refined, higher quality car.

1. The import is covering the car being driven, car trading v2g and all loads in the house. 302kWh was exported back to the grid from the V2G of the ~700kWh consumed by the house/car

2. Export is controlled by kaluza, a virtual power plant/aggregator/platform.

3. Schedule and min soc settigs from the app in images below.

4. Best to check with OVO but fairly sure you can register interest and then switch if accepted.



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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Just reading the limitations on the other thread. in each day you can't export more than you import. Would this offer be of benefit if I have low daily usage mon-fri? Can you give me an example of how this work out if I had a 40kWh car?
yes, the lower your usage, and the linger you are plugged in, in theory the more the system will make (this is one of the things the trial is hoping to prove)

I have attached screenshots for a month we used a 40kWh car.

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Hi - a couple of questions-

Is this worthwhile if you do not have any form of electric generation?

It is generally advised not to regularly charge over 80% (Leaf 24), so would charging to 100% be to further degrade the battery?
Yes, OVO actually pay a higher rate for exports (30p) if you dont have solar. You'll typically buy electricity in the middle of the night, store it in the EV battery and then sell it back in the morning and/or evening peaks.

Battery degradation is being closely managed with warranty underwritten by Nissan and OVO.

The system actively manages the battery to keep it away from 100% so you'll find you spend less time resting at 100%. For example, my schedule is set to have the car ready for 7am and it will only reach 100% SOC just before. On a dumb charger it would be at 100% before midnight

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I have attached screenshots for a month we used a 40kWh car.
Didn't see your screenshot attached. What would be the best case for a 40kWh car parked up mon-fri: charge from 20%to 80% during night and discharge during the day? Would say 20kWh export be feasible, which would give a notional profit of £2.60( £676 per annum). Are there fixed hours when it will allow the battery to be charged?

Also would exporting 20kWh per day be exempt from income tax under micro generation rules.
 

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Didn't see your screenshot attached. What would be the best case for a 40kWh car parked up mon-fri: charge from 20%to 80% during night and discharge during the day? Would say 20kWh export be feasible, which would give a notional profit of £2.60( £676 per annum). Are there fixed hours when it will allow the battery to be charged?

Also would exporting 20kWh per day be exempt from income tax under micro generation rules.
Weird. i'll try and re upload them.

Warranty is capped at 18kWh a day, average over a month so 20kWh a day, 5 days a week is fine.

100kWh a week will cost (on my 13.72p rate) £13.72 to charge, then at 30p/kWh export make £30 when exported. making a profit of £16.28 a week, around £800 a year.

The unit has around 90% round trip efficiency to be taken into account (so take 10% off) and this also assumes nothing is consumed by the house when exporting which probably won't be the case. somewhere around £600 a year should be achievable in your case.

Battery can be charged at any time but it will optimise for lowest price and/or lowest grid carbon. Your schedule and the 'boost' feature allow this to be overriden

Unsure on income tax rules for V2G - you may be the first to have asked the question and I doubt HMRC have even thought about it yet.





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100kWh a week will cost (on my 13.72p rate) £13.72 to charge, then at 30p/kWh export make £30 when exported. making a profit of £16.28 a week, around £800 a year.
... somewhere around £600 a year should be achievable in your case.
Thanks. My rough calculations gave a similar figure.

Unsure on income tax rules for V2G - you may be the first to have asked the question and I doubt HMRC have even thought about it yet.
The information I found on the web relates to micro generation, so wonder if this would come under the same rules? The 'profit' would be the difference between the import/export x kWh. The credit on the monthly bill would be deducted from the import, ie. in your August bill £99.07 - £57.55 = £41.52. Would be good to have that clarified by the experts.
 

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Is it still the case that the car needs to be plugged in most days between 5pm and 7pm to make it worthwhile?
 
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