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Discussion Starter #1
Hi All,

The title of this post is a quote from Nick Clegg and thought it would be good to discuss as I have been looking at people's experiences on here and other sites as well as the media since deciding to get my Outlander PHEV to see just how feasible it is to run an electric vehicle in the UK.

I am currently sitting at home following total hip replacement surgery so have nothing better to do! LOL

This is not an environmental point as we know the benefits, it is about practicability. There are quite a lot of people talking the talk but from what I can see the idea of having an EV outside of being able to charge at home and at work is problematic to say the least as illustrated when I followed with the thread regarding the reporter driving 230 miles!

I assume we are all aware of the announcement at the start of the year

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/nick-cleggs-drive-to-make-uk-world-leader-in-electric-cars

and the other one a few weeks ago

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nick-clegg-launches-500m-scheme-to-boost-electric-cars-in-britain-9298518.html

which was followed by Mr Clegg saying they were not for him!!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/nick-clegg/10800923/Nick-Clegg-Electric-cars-arent-suitable-for-my-family.html

Do you think the infrastructure can support effective use of an EV? What (in an ideal world) do you think the government should do..... apart from become Norwegian!
 

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In this context EV is a very broad church. Especially wrt. the Outlander, the charging infrastructure is not really highly relevant. I've one on order, and it works for me - but the EV component is too small to warrant charging infrastructure. Who would stop every 30 miles (probably less) to top up before continuing a journey. IMHO that type of car doesn't need infrastructure - charge at home on 10A, charge at work if you can, but if you're commuting much further than the EV range of the car, then forget it. Buy as efficient and clean an ICE as you can find, it will be kinder. It will work very well for me as I can do 80%+ of my journeys on EV only, but still tow a dive boat down to the coast a few times a year, and pack up and take the family on holiday. However, any charging other than at home is just a 'nice to have' improvement in the fuel economy (whilst public charging is still free or reasonably priced). Possibly harsh, but I believe PHEVs are transitional tech and shouldn't be leading infrastructure design.

One infrastructure doesn't and arguably can't support effective use of all EV types today. Become Norwegian mainly, but I'd like to see more responsible and well informed spending of public money to avoid lining the pockets of companies who have moved early into the space lobbying and profiteering from the grant money. Subsidising the launch of commercial infrastructure of specific companies, fragmented and disjointed charging infrastructure (anyone would think they're building a railway!). On top of that, we have the 5k OLEV grant on new cars which is just free money to manufacturers and holds the effective price up.

As to what they should do - well that's the question. More well-informed judgement and a greater resistance to corporate lobbying, more guidance from NGOs, carbon trust etc..
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the reply. My wording may have been misleading, I apologise!
I have an Outlander on order as a company car.
I'm thinking of an EV as a private 'second family' car!
 

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I realise my earlier post was very much "things the government shouldn't do", but a few ideas have just occurred to me.

Re: 5k new car grants. What if instead of effectively handing manufacturers £5k of revenue a more punitive policy was used?

For example, not that I'm au fait with the pros and cons of CARB policies in California, but what about something around a ramping up on corporate taxation and/or tax relief bands when a certain % of EV sales is hit. Clearly this might have to go to a number of decimal % places right now.. :rolleyes:

Such a scheme has the possibility to generate revenue for the exchequer to invest in other EV initiatives (or just shore up the public deficit).

I still struggle to come up with a solution when thinking about public infrastructure when the state has no wish to own the infrastructure. If the plan is for private organsiations to run then investing public money to assist them in building a network doesn't seem right. Maybe, a better focus is on relief or incentive to bodies who provide public charging infrastructure and leave the charge point operating companies to compete for commercial charging infrastructure business where that is requried.

In such a vision, the likes of ZeroNet, CYC, local government investment can all be catered for I think. The benefit and incentive to provide public infrastructure falls more on the corporate social responsibility angle of hosting businesses or local authorities who can enjoy the subsidy or relief irrespective of the presence or absence of a commercial business model.

Another option would be to adopt Feed In Tariff type treatment of public and private charge points. All else equal and temporarily ignoring the source of energy, an effective carbon reduction payment a la carbon credits.

That's me done for ideas. Brain needs food. :D
 

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I've had my i3 Rex for 2 months. I use it mainly for local journeys 25 mile round trip. Works really well, I try to charge it when the sun is shinning. Then most of the electricity is free off my solar panels. Otherwise I just plug it in to my home charging point.

I have also done 4 longer trips, between 80m and 160m round trips. These need some careful planning at the moment, but have worked well for me. As the infrastructure improves it will get easier. I have not used the range extender yet.

On round trips of upto 50 miles, range is not a problem, even playing at being a boy racer. When range is important, driving modestly on motorways or dual carriageways is very relaxing

I love my i3, hope this helps
 

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Great minds and all that - our LEAF gets delivered in the next few days :D
Hello everyone I thought this a good thread to introduce myself amongst kindred spirits. ( known as Viewpoint on the Leaftalk forum due to an assertive autoincorrect Ipad ). I have Gen 1 LEAF ( which my wife mainly uses) but am looking to get an Outlander PHEV for myself to replace my ageing 4 x 4. I live up in the Durham hills where we get a fair bit of snow and also need to tow a trailer every now and then so will look to see about getting a tow bar fitted.
Just wondering whether you enquired with your dealers about the availability of trialing the outlander for a day or so before you ordered - are there many demos about yet.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
The PHEV demos are arriving around now so make contact and see what you can organise, my demo was in a normal Outlander ICE as wanted to get one ordered and with me it was about a car I can be comfortable in it due to my Osteoarthritis, and everything on it ergonomically is the same! ;)

I also found out the level of knowledge at the dealers I visited was a bit :confused:
 

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Welcome Casper!

On this side of the Atlantic aka. Petrol :)

Just wondering whether you enquired with your dealers about the availability of trialing the outlander for a day or so before you ordered - are there many demos about yet.
Not yet - I was a fleet buyer and the first test drive I was offered was sometime in June. Luckily, I was invited up to Mitsubishi HQ to take a short test drive there. Depending on where you are located, I was told Bristol Mitsubishi should have a demonstrator in late May early June.

more info here: Hands on with the Outlander PHEV
 

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Well came across first negative review of the Outlander PHEV this morning in the Sunday Times Driving section by "aspiring Eco -driver" Eleanor Mills. she apparently would almost pay £28,249 not to drive the beast again and her tip is to get 2nd hand X3 ( she admits to owning a diesel X3 but is worried about polluting particulates). Her main criticisms seems to be information overload in the cockpit and the impossibility of charging you car from a typical city home. At least her article is balanced by an alternative adjoining one of a connected future painting a relatively rosy picture of the EV infrastructure network.
Elsewhere however in The ST's business news reports last ditch battle to save one of the UK's few remaining oil refineries at Milford Haven closing it seems due to "the rising popularity of diesel cars" hitting British refineries built to make petrol. Then we have P4 in the main section about scientist's findings that toxic particles and gases emitted mainly by diesel vehicles causing stunted lung growth in children creating health problems.
Wonder whether The transport baroness reads the papers.

Going for a test drive of the Outlander tomorrow.
 

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Well came across first negative review of the Outlander PHEV this morning in the Sunday Times Driving section by "aspiring Eco -driver" Eleanor Mills. she apparently would almost pay £28,249 not to drive the beast again and her tip is to get 2nd hand X3 ( she admits to owning a diesel X3 but is worried about polluting particulates). Her main criticisms seems to be information overload in the cockpit and the impossibility of charging you car from a typical city home. At least her article is balanced by an alternative adjoining one of a connected future painting a relatively rosy picture of the EV infrastructure network.
Elsewhere however in The ST's business news reports last ditch battle to save one of the UK's few remaining oil refineries at Milford Haven closing it seems due to "the rising popularity of diesel cars" hitting British refineries built to make petrol. Then we have P4 in the main section about scientist's findings that toxic particles and gases emitted mainly by diesel vehicles causing stunted lung growth in children creating health problems.
Wonder whether The transport baroness reads the papers.

Going for a test drive of the Outlander tomorrow.
Yes read this earlier today, I also wondered about her description of "the computer" needing you to select a language each time every time you turned it on.. Eh what?! Come off it....
 

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The technology suite in the Outlander is muddled and quirky, but information overload, computer says no? :rolleyes:

Perhaps they gave her the GX4hs - that is annoying with the non-collision distraction system, and the lane distraction alerting thingyme. Paywalled - I'll never know :p
 

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Well range extenders help with range anxiety, but not with pollution well not in a big way but I guess it's better than nothing, so I don't know why she is saying get a bmw x3 there just as bad
 

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Well range extenders help with range anxiety, but not with pollution well not in a big way but I guess it's better than nothing, so I don't know why she is saying get a bmw x3 there just as bad
Reports from the USA actually say that the Volt covers more all electric miles than the Leaf as their drivers have no problem using up every last bit of there electricity.

Most of the journeys where I use petrol are also at a time I don't have time to stop and charge as they are for work. So if I owned a Leaf etc I would actually have to hire an ICE for the day therefor using even more petrol. My range extender covers all my normal daily needs(about 85% of the time) and then magically turns into an ICE car on the days that a normal EV just could not cope.
 

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My office for my new job (starting in the morning) is 44.5 miles from home so the Ampera (when I get it) wont make it every time (in the cold, in traffic, in the dark mornings) - so the "hold" function will prove rather handy !
Work are also in dialogue with the landlord to see about a charger for me (dont tell the tax man eh?)....
 
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