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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Oxford have completed the final consultation so the zez will probably be implemented later this year.



Except it's not a zez as they are still allowing cars to enter the zone they are just going to charge them, so its more about raising money for another cash strapped council.
 

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That trial zone isn't going to affect visitors from outside, or many locals, just the busses/taxis/delivery vehicles polluting those few mostly-narrow roads. But it could be quite a game changer if/when they extend it in 2022 to cover "the rest of the city centre". To me, that sounds like including St Aldates near Carfax, High Street, Broad Street, George Street, who knows what else. If this discourages petrol & diesel vehicles, I'm all for it.
 

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Those responsible for introducing zero or low emission zones perhaps need to get their act together to make it clear that their objective is indeed to reduce pollution, rather than raise revenue. London is a good example of how not to do it. They have a system that uses ANPR to identify vehicles entering the zones, and use that to either note that the vehicle is registered with them as being exempt from charges, or to request payment from the registered owner. However, as anyone know who has tried to go through the online registration process recently knows, it's a bit of a nightmare, and far from easy to renew.

There shouldn't need to be any application process at all, as the make and model of every registered vehicle is available on a publicly accessible database, with no restrictions imposed by GDPR or whatever. The make and model information is all that's needed to determine whether a car is exempt or not, so why is there any need for a handraulic, annually renewable, registration process at all? With the advent of the green flash on the registration plates of exempt vehicles the process should get easier, assuming there is some way to add detection of that green flash to ANPR systems eventually.

We used to visit Oxford fairly regularly, but if I now need to go through an exemption registration process that's in any way like the one that operates in London, then I'm not at all sure I'll bother, TBH.
 

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With the advent of the green flash on the registration plates of exempt vehicles the process should get easier, assuming there is some way to add detection of that green flash to ANPR systems eventually.
Too simple, and far too easy for idiots to just get a green sticker and fix it to their existing number plate of a fossil burner.

Given that the TfL system looks up the DVLA fuel type and emissions class by reading number plates anyway, that's all they should need to do. If It's registered as electric it gets the appropriate discount / exemption.
Of course, they could change it now, but that would mean that all the people they employ to do the pen pushing exercise of keeping a separate list of exemptions and discounts would be redundant.
Not all vehicles legally on the roads of Britain are registered with DVLA. Some are registered with DVA in Northern Ireland, many are registered with other regional or national registration authorities.
 

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As ever with these schemes it's only going half way.
Surely, if we want to change peoples habits then a total ban on vehicles entering these zones is the best idea, rather than encouraging the few who can afford an EV to change their mode of transport. All it does is push the problem of too many vehicles on our roads another decade down the line.
Cities existed long before cars came along. Removing them altogether should be the aim rather than fudging it with "zones" that do little to change the long term way we interact in our communities.
 

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Well, I would start with free parking for EVs and hike them up for ICE vehicles
It's parking for cars which makes cities such terrible places to live, shop and work already. Regardless of the propulsion there are too many cars all needing somewhere to be left while their drivers go about their business.
When you consider how much land costs in our city centres, especially in places like Oxford, the parking charges would need to be punitive to reflect the real cost of the space cars take up.
Alas, this will never happen and society in general has to keep on subsidising the poor motorist in their mobile status symbols.
 

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It's parking for cars which makes cities such terrible places to live, shop and work already. Regardless of the propulsion there are too many cars all needing somewhere to be left while their drivers go about their business.
When you consider how much land costs in our city centres, especially in places like Oxford, the parking charges would need to be punitive to reflect the real cost of the space cars take up.
Alas, this will never happen and society in general has to keep on subsidising the poor motorist in their mobile status symbols.
There's nothing wrong with cars and parking in well planned city centres. In any case the basis of zero emissions zones is to reduce and then eliminate noxious gasses and particulates. Nobody wants to use busses and the result of banning all cars is that shoppers will go somewhere else.
 

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Oxford in particular has a lot of excellent Type 2 chargers in their underground Westgate shopping centre. Something like 50? Not cheap to park, but if you take on a decent charge, that makes up for the extra you pay over say the P&R. Well worth it imho for the convenience of being right at the shopping area & no waiting for the next bus. I'm looking forward to going there again when lockdown's over.
 

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There's nothing wrong with cars and parking in well planned city centres. In any case the basis of zero emissions zones is to reduce and then eliminate noxious gasses and particulates. Nobody wants to use busses and the result of banning all cars is that shoppers will go somewhere else.
So you're telling me city centres are well planned?
If that is the case why are they even having to introduce the ZEZ's?
BEV's being heavier produce more PM2.5's from tyre degredation than the ICE alternative, so surely they should be banned too.
I think you'll find that shoppers have already taken their business elsewhere post pandemic. Internet shopping has moved so far forward over the last year that high streets as we know them are doomed now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Those responsible for introducing zero or low emission zones perhaps need to get their act together to make it clear that their objective is indeed to reduce pollution, rather than raise revenue. London is a good example of how not to do it. They have a system that uses ANPR to identify vehicles entering the zones, and use that to either note that the vehicle is registered with them as being exempt from charges, or to request payment from the registered owner. However, as anyone know who has tried to go through the online registration process recently knows, it's a bit of a nightmare, and far from easy to renew.

There shouldn't need to be any application process at all, as the make and model of every registered vehicle is available on a publicly accessible database, with no restrictions imposed by GDPR or whatever. The make and model information is all that's needed to determine whether a car is exempt or not, so why is there any need for a handraulic, annually renewable, registration process at all? With the advent of the green flash on the registration plates of exempt vehicles the process should get easier, assuming there is some way to add detection of that green flash to ANPR systems eventually.

We used to visit Oxford fairly regularly, but if I now need to go through an exemption registration process that's in any way like the one that operates in London, then I'm not at all sure I'll bother, TBH.

Looks like you'll soon be able to catch a bus from Eynsham

BBC News - Eynsham £37m park-and-ride approved
Oxford in particular has a lot of excellent Type 2 chargers in their underground Westgate shopping centre. Something like 50? Not cheap to park, but if you take on a decent charge, that makes up for the extra you pay over say the P&R. Well worth it imho for the convenience of being right at the shopping area & no waiting for the next bus. I'm looking forward to going there again when lockdown's over.
Hopefully Oxford City Council wont include the approach roads in the expanded ZEZ but i suspect they will, ive already ditched shopping in Oxford for MK who are hybrid friendly and Banbury, I suspect a lot of people will do the same once its implemented which will please the council no end but probably wont go down well with businesses.
 

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That park and ride sounds like a good plan. We used to really enjoy days out in Oxford before the plague, but parking has always been a bit of a pain. Be nice to get back to days out again.
 

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So you're telling me city centres are well planned?
If that is the case why are they even having to introduce the ZEZ's?
BEV's being heavier produce more PM2.5's from tyre degredation than the ICE alternative, so surely they should be banned too.
I think you'll find that shoppers have already taken their business elsewhere post pandemic. Internet shopping has moved so far forward over the last year that high streets as we know them are doomed now.
I knew the tyres would come up. Most tyre particulates are not in the most hazardous sub micron respiratory range. Unlikely that tyre dust can be eliminated and so sensible policies are to introduce zero emissions zones. I can't really understand why EV owners wouldn't welcome this. Apart from the recent covid issues, it is the anti car policies that have contributed to the demise of town and city centres. If you just accept that town centres have had their day, you might as well not have them at all. Weirdly, some councils have promoted the "night time economy" as a means of reviving town centre economies by providing free parking at night. Then you just end up with a shithole.
 

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Those responsible for introducing zero or low emission zones perhaps need to get their act together to make it clear that their objective is indeed to reduce pollution, rather than raise revenue. London is a good example of how not to do it. They have a system that uses ANPR to identify vehicles entering the zones, and use that to either note that the vehicle is registered with them as being exempt from charges, or to request payment from the registered owner. However, as anyone know who has tried to go through the online registration process recently knows, it's a bit of a nightmare, and far from easy to renew.
I've done it 3 times in the last year. All fine.

Looking forward to Oxford doing this. They should also increase their chargers at their Park&Ride's
I am all for "raising revenue" as ICE cars have had a subsisdy for far too long (which is the NHS, that has had to pick-up the consequences from all the air pollution).

Bristol's "completely ban diesels" was great, until they reverted due to Covid.
 

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Well, I would start with free parking for EVs and hike them up for ICE vehicles
Agreed - Has worked wonders in London Borough of Westminister.
 

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I knew the tyres would come up. Most tyre particulates are not in the most hazardous sub micron respiratory range. Unlikely that tyre dust can be eliminated and so sensible policies are to introduce zero emissions zones. I can't really understand why EV owners wouldn't welcome this. Apart from the recent covid issues, it is the anti car policies that have contributed to the demise of town and city centres. If you just accept that town centres have had their day, you might as well not have them at all. Weirdly, some councils have promoted the "night time economy" as a means of reviving town centre economies by providing free parking at night. Then you just end up with a shithole.
I'm a pedestrian and cyclist first, then an EV'er when I have to travel further outside of the city that I call home. During covid it has been bliss living in a city centre without high pollution and all the congestion that motor vehicles create. Banning ICE vehicles only to replace them with BEV's doesn't remove all the problems that blight city centres it just reduces one part of the emissions problem. You will still end up with the same amount of congestion regardless if all you do is encourage people to shift their means of driving from ICE to BEV.

I travelled into Oxford for 4 months, a decade ago, while doing some work there and the congestion at peak times was phenomenal for a city of 175,000 population. One can only wonder what it is like 10 years later, pre-covid.

Owning an EV doesn't mean you aren't part of the problem, it's just greenwash. Cars don't keep local economies alive, people do. Counter intuitively to some, car drivers don't actually spend much money in city centres as they only shop in them say once a week. It's actually pedestrians and cyclists who have the bigger spend as short, local journies encourage higher spend rates in the locale.
 

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This looks like mostly nonsense. Three of these streets are dead ends, queen street is busses and taxies only and cornmarket is a pedestrian area!

Honestly! They could have at at least included George st.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
This looks like mostly nonsense. Three of these streets are dead ends, queen street is busses and taxies only and cornmarket is a pedestrian area!

Honestly! They could have at at least included George st.
Thats just the start, the zone will be expanded to eventually cover the rest of the city centre it is expected to be introduced in spring 2022, if they include the Westgate centre approach road i wont be using it again.
 

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the advent of the green flash on the registration plates of exempt vehicles the process should get easier, assuming there is some way to add detection of that green flash to ANPR systems eventually.
The green plates are optional and the legislation doesn't allow any benefits or discounts to be linked to them. ANPR or a permit is the approved approach.

ANPR and the DVLA database IS used in London for the LEZ. That wasn't included in the older CC contract which is partly why we have the antiquated system. That said, all cars should pay CC but (for now) ULEVs are eligible for the Cleaner Vehicle Discount. Because it is a discount, TFL can remove it easier and it is ending for PHEVs this year and (currently) will end for BEVs in 2025, but that could happen earlier...
 

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Thats just the start, the zone will be expanded to eventually cover the rest of the city centre it is expected to be introduced in spring 2022, if they include the Westgate centre approach road i wont be using it again.
It's still a very weak start. Almost laughable. Zez a pedestrian zone an three roads no one drives down.
 
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