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Discussion Starter #1
Hiya, anyone considering driving an EV to the Climate Conference in first week of December, to demonstrate or just to be there, or just for the hell of it?
I'm assuming that some of you have 'green' reasons for choosing an EV -as well as it being pollution-free, quiet, cheap and lovely to drive of course. I've looked up 'Paris' journeys here and there's a fair few comments about how hard it is, and I admit I haven't looked in detail yet. However I did manage to make a journey south through France (and back!) last month, and I get the impression that provision eastwards is now improving, across Normandy is the problem, not necessarily around it. I know Dieppe -Rouen - peage towards Paris is possible, then more research needed.
Any interest?
It would be nice to get together a bit of a convoy ... Well maybe a staggered one between chargers!
 

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The Agenda is at : http://unfccc.int/files/meetings/paris_nov_2015/application/pdf/provisional_agenda_for_cop21.pdf

Driving to Paris may be a challenge - but it is do'able'. However, parking the EV in central Paris would be a bigger challenge!

I'm unclear what effect a UK contingent might have? Surely this is a forum for global 'posturing'.

There are surely events in UK (or at the EU) where a presence by UK EV drivers might have more impact!

Posted on the A20 - returning from Paris (by bus) - where we used the Autolib EV service - every day!
 

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There will be a rally/march on the 29th November in London. I probably would not take my EV it is easier for me to catch a train. There will also be events on the 12th December. Might not be a good idea for me to be driving a VW round Paris, even if it is an EV! I suspect lots of people will not be able to tell the difference.

We are the ones we have been waiting for
 

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The link talks about 'Civil Disobenience'? I think we are going beyond the 'conventions' of Speak EV, if that is to be debated here?

I'm all about advocacy of 'environmental issues' - but there are many opportunities before 'Civil Disobedince' becomes the 'weapon of choice'!

As to taking a £20+K asset to such an event - well that would be pure madness?
 

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Irrespective of what that particular website says, I think it is fair to say that any kind of rally in France which will bring together anti-globalisation and anti-climate change may have an element of civil-disobedience from a small minority!

Better to make people aware than to sign up unawares thinking that it will be a jaunt to Paris and back!

Anyway if we did have the Model X it would be a good chance to test that air filter against tear gas and burning tyres!
 

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Rather than driving to Paris and possibly be misreported by the media, if public order breaks down. My thoughts are that if every Member of Speak EV , and sister sites, wrote a personal letter to their MP and to the PM setting out their thoughts on protecting the future, the effect would be more effective. No proforma letters or petitions, just simple, carefully worded letters from Constituents. (perhaps copied to local press also).
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Goodness gracious me: "public order breakdown", " civil disobedience", "posturing", "driving into central Paris" ...where did all these assumptions come from? This is a United Nations Climate Conference, this year perhaps a slightly more serious event than say, the London Olympics.
 

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This is a United Nations Climate Conference, this year perhaps a slightly more serious event than say, the London Olympics.
It is a near certainty that the meetings will attract numerous demonstrations, mostly very peaceful and positive, But I suggest that the odds are that someone will take a gathering of world leaders as an opportunity for more 'direct action', and that action will get the headlines and distort the views more than a simple gathering of EV drivers. Politicians respond better to identifiable voters not to public demonstrations.
 

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@Fran Your original post may have had a genuine intent; however, the subsequent post by @charles545587 had links referring to more strident anti-establishment action, that can be expected to lead to criminal damage and violence.

I'm all in favour of promoting more sustainable lifestyles - but I still think reasoned argument delivered by education and lobbying are more likely to bring success.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Please settle down a bit. I sincerely apologise for winding you all up in my first sentence for this thread. Demonstrating of any kind is not on my mind. Neither do I even faintly imagine, nor did I suggest, that a few cars heading towards Paris, however low-polluting on the carbon spectrum, would have any political significance whatsoever.

However I am attracted by the possibility of attending a highly significant event in that fine european city, focussed around the sort of future that interests me. There's a lot going on far from the Summit itself and will not all be about demonstrations. Perhaps you'd like to take a quick look at this site, ARTCOP21 A cultural programme for the 21st United Nations Conference on climate change : COAL

My thinking process was: It would be nice to be there, perhaps with a friend or two. The cheapest and most appropriate means of travel (given the occasion) would be in my EV. It will be December, the difficulties of getting there could turn into a miserable experience if/when charger points go haywire...I wonder if there are any others of the same mind so there'd be some mutual encouragement on the road.
This was evidently the wrong forum to suggest such a thing.
 

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@Fran Your original post may have had a genuine intent; however, the subsequent post by @charles545587 had links referring to more strident anti-establishment action, that can be expected to lead to criminal damage and violence.

I'm all in favour of promoting more sustainable lifestyles - but I still think reasoned argument delivered by education and lobbying are more likely to bring success.

Please also note I am not endorsing or intend to take part in any civil disobedience.

I did a Google search and posted the first link I came across!

If you want to write to your MP, then this site is useful. I used it on Friday to complain to my MP about the loss of jobs being caused by the review of the FiT for renewables. I got a reply the same day from my MP.

WriteToThem
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Please also note I am not endorsing or intend to take part in any civil disobedience.

I did a Google search and posted the first link I came across!

If you want to write to your MP, then this site is useful. I used it on Friday to complain to my MP about the loss of jobs being caused by the review of the FiT for renewables. I got a reply the same day from my MP.

WriteToThem
Dear Charles,
At risk at reviving the lecturing on this thread:
I am pleased to hear you have written to your MP regarding FiTs, it is a tragedy that even the most minimal promotion towards lower a carbon Britain and a growing industry to clean us up and keep us warmer has been simply wiped out.
I hope that people who now own or will buy an EV are not only doing so to save money but also because it is ideologogically a Good Thing, and that they will be willing to explain to others why that should be. Unless people are willing to combat the sneering in the UK press about green issues we will be again "the dirty man of Europe". I recognise this is a site about cars and not about politics, however the reasons for buying, and indeed manufacturing, such a group of vehicles is surely not a secret among us.
On a personal note, I am lucky to live in Brighton where my MP is already more informed and active than I am on this issue. I hope your letter had effect.
Regards Fran
 

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I hope your letter had effect.
@Fran my letter can be found at: Letter to MP concerning job losses in the Solar Industry

There are so many angles I could have targeted, but decided to not go with an eco-warrior climate change angle. With the current Government I suspect you get written off and dismissed as another raving lunatic. I decided to go with something that every Conservative MP would say they represent; creating jobs, reducing unemployment and getting people off benefit.

These are terms that they understand and that despite warnings is already in jeopardy, I expect that the Government does not want to be reminded in future that they are creating the conditions to make people unemployed. They know it and so do the opposition! The tax cuts for the oil industry were all about saving jobs, so I decided to remind them of this in my letter.

Despite my MP being conservative and a cabinet member I did get a reply.

"Thank you for your message. I have recently approached Amber Rudd at DECC on behalf of another constituent expressing similar concerns. I am awaiting her response but will make sure I send you a copy as soon as it arrives."

I really don't mind (I would be flattered) if people decided to cut/paste/amend my letter and sent something similar to their MP using WriteToThem

The more direct voices to MPs the more accountable they are and it takes seconds.

I know this forum is about EVs. But as many other threads have pointed out, unless we become more reliant on renewables to power our driving then we will never shut up the Jeremy Clarkson's of this world who insist on saying our cars are powered by Coal and at the moment they have a point!
 

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Wonder how Amber Rudd is going to respond to todays letter from Climate Change Committee ( CCC) - leaves UK carbon budget advice unchanged, despite Paris raising global goal
https://t.co/4iA5oOAx4x Simon Evans on Twitter

Amber agreed to improve on the original 2 Degree global warming limit which included commitment on EVs to maintain incentives, reduce ice emissions and improve charging infrastructure
 

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Surely CCS (as in carbon capture and storage) is a busted flush anyway..?
CCS was a fig-leaf for the coal and gas fossil fuel industry for electricity power generation to appear respectable. But once the fossil fuel industry realised they were going to have to pay for it rather than governments picking up the tab it seems to have been dropped at least in the UK. And the UK government unable to attract any bids (Capacity Management) in for gas fired large power stations has made CCS optional to try again and attract bidders (CCS - fitted for but not with) and that has failed as well to attract any bids on the last round held. Fossil fuel Industry knows it can hold the government hostage for greater subsidies so long as the renewables sector does not grow any more, as we have left it very late to replace the generation capacity that is going off-line.

You still find reference to CCS in the gushing long term projection reports that the big oil and gas companies put out to justify their activities. Mainly these reports are mind exercises to delay the transition to renewables that they know in their entrails and tea-leaves is coming sooner than they would wish.

Attached file shows a UK mix that would take us to cleaner energy. I don't think it is correct in many details but the independent research (USA based) thinking that produced it does at least show that for the UK wind energy is key. Ramping up wind energy like Denmark has done is the easiest option and the lowest cost and the quickest project to deliver kWh to the grid. - it's a no brainer for the UK. Unless that is your brain, like some ministerial advisers has been addled by the fossil fuel lobbyists. I don't think many minsters are capable of thinking. Cameron has never given a speech ever on the biggest threat we face - climate change consequences. Not much of a leader. (Rant off).
 

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Amber agreed to improve on the original 2 Degree global warming limit which included commitment on EVs to maintain incentives, reduce ice emissions and improve charging infrastructure
She meant of course 4 degrees! (4 being more than 2 )
 

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The real interest in CCS was to be able to shove CO2 into depleted oil reservoirs in the hope of squeezing out a bit more oil. Call it plapping if you like.
 

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Surely CCS (as in carbon capture and storage) is a busted flush anyway..?
Not according to the recommendations of this budget (https://documents.theccc.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Fifth-Carbon-Budget_Executive-Summary.pdf) whose
Particular priorities are:

  • Developing e ective, low-cost approaches to energy e ciency in buildings and to drive a shift to low-carbon forms of heating (e.g. heat pumps and heat networks).
  • Continuing e ciency improvement in vehicles, especially by shifting towards ultra-low emission (e.g. electric and plug-in hybrid) vehicles.
  • Ensuring that low-cost, low-carbon power is rolled out in the 2020s.
  • Supporting development of key emerging options such as carbon capture and storage

    We should probably remember that all of funding of EV grant subsidy and public charging infrastructure has resulted from the recommendations of the previous carbon budgets being implemented by last governments (both Labour and Con/Lib Dem coalition). The letter is diplomatically pointing out if credible measures are taken to meet carbon reduction targets then equal or better policies will need to be implemented.

    PS Don't know why the f* gaps above not pasted from summary quoted.
 
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