Speak EV - Electric Car Forums banner

Perhaps I might not buy another Leaf in the future :(

7K views 82 replies 33 participants last post by  Bilgy_no1 
#1 ·
As some of you may know I will have had my Leaf (Evie!) 4 weeks on Saturday. Last Saturday I wanted to go and see a friend some miles away from me in Guildford. Her place is 36 miles from mine, according to the sat nav so I thought I'd be able to do it without charging. I was going to be stuck for time on arrival and no possibility of charging at hers because she only has on street parking. It was also going to be after midnight when I did the return journey.

I drove carefully, took the 'Eco' route on the planner and didn't have the heating on other than very short occasional bursts to keep the screen clear so I could see. No amount of having the windows open seemed to achieve this. I arrived with 50% left in my batteries and supposedly 47 miles. Bearing in mind that I'd done 36 careful miles to get there I was slightly worried by this but figured there would be a charger fairly close somewhere, so we went off to our do in her car and I decided to search for a charger on returning. BIG mistake. I drove to the first location thinking I'd get a quick blast to find that I couldn't access the charger. Then I didn't want to trust that there was a charger at the Little Chef at Ripley on the A3 because I'd been told by someone at Polar that most of them have been removed. Locally to me this has been true. I had no decent internet signal on my phone to load any of the apps and the car sat nav didn't have the new chargers at Chobham on the M25 listed so I wasn't sure how far away they were or in what direction.

End result was I crawled home through some nightmarishly nasty lanes at 30mph or less with no heating, wiping the screen to see and getting in the way of every other road user who came up behind me wondering why the hell I was out driving at that time of night if I was scared to go faster than 30. I knew full well that if I ran out of battery I had no mobile signal whatsoever to get help. It was cold, foggy and raining and I was on my own. I can honestly say I hated the car and the lack of infrastructure to support it at that point. I was still 16 miles out when the low battery warning light came on and by the time I arrived home (thankfully) I had 7 miles left in the 'tank' and only 4% charge. Not to mention I was stiff and sore from the absolute terror of being stuck miles from anywhere with no phone signal and dead car.

Clearly I should have planned for a backup charger but surely 72 miles in a brand new Gen 2 Leaf should be possible under those circumstances? I started with the Guessometer saying 95 so it's not like I'm driving like a bat out of hell or anything. I guess another question is where are the Guildford chargers? I've looked again since getting home and there really doesn't seem to be anything available between me near Worthing and my friend at Guildford :(

On the plus side though the car decided it had a range of 109 miles after a full charge the next morning! Yeah right!
 
See less See more
#2 ·
As above really. This does highlight a couple of the failings in the LEAF (and probably other EVs) that I really think need sorting.

First and foremost is the GOM (guess-ometer, the device so bad it's gained a name for it, literally). This needs to improve somehow or otherwise be altered in my opinion. It's not accurate or true, never can be.

More so though is the information accuracy and currency in the LEAF navigation with regards charge point data. It's not good enough and it's something people WILL and DO rely on. Third party solutions are fine if you have time, know about then, and a decent phone signal, but this is KEY to an EV, and particularly one with range like the LEAF has.

Glad you got home, sorry it was such a poor experience.
 
#3 ·
I think a 72 mile trip given the conditions was a little optimistic. The cold will hammer the battery performance and the rain increases the drag when you're driving significantly. Coupled with the requirement to run the heater and the AC, I would have expected that to be a very difficult journey!
 
#4 ·
As some of you may know I will have had my Leaf (Evie!) 4 weeks on Saturday. Last Saturday I wanted to go and see a friend some miles away from me in Guildford. Her place is 36 miles from mine, according to the sat nav so I thought I'd be able to do it without charging. I was going to be stuck for time on arrival and no possibility of charging at hers because she only has on street parking. It was also going to be after midnight when I did the return journey.

I drove carefully, took the 'Eco' route on the planner and didn't have the heating on other than very short occasional bursts to keep the screen clear so I could see. No amount of having the windows open seemed to achieve this. I arrived with 50% left in my batteries and supposedly 47 miles. Bearing in mind that I'd done 36 careful miles to get there I was slightly worried by this but figured there would be a charger fairly close somewhere, so we went off to our do in her car and I decided to search for a charger on returning. BIG mistake. I drove to the first location thinking I'd get a quick blast to find that I couldn't access the charger. Then I didn't want to trust that there was a charger at the Little Chef at Ripley on the A3 because I'd been told by someone at Polar that most of them have been removed. Locally to me this has been true. I had no decent internet signal on my phone to load any of the apps and the car sat nav didn't have the new chargers at Chobham on the M25 listed so I wasn't sure how far away they were or in what direction.

End result was I crawled home through some nightmarishly nasty lanes at 30mph or less with no heating, wiping the screen to see and getting in the way of every other road user who came up behind me wondering why the hell I was out driving at that time of night if I was scared to go faster than 30. I knew full well that if I ran out of battery I had no mobile signal whatsoever to get help. It was cold, foggy and raining and I was on my own. I can honestly say I hated the car and the lack of infrastructure to support it at that point. I was still 16 miles out when the low battery warning light came on and by the time I arrived home (thankfully) I had 7 miles left in the 'tank' and only 4% charge. Not to mention I was stiff and sore from the absolute terror of being stuck miles from anywhere with no phone signal and dead car.

Clearly I should have planned for a backup charger but surely 72 miles in a brand new Gen 2 Leaf should be possible under those circumstances? I started with the Guessometer saying 95 so it's not like I'm driving like a bat out of hell or anything. I guess another question is where are the Guildford chargers? I've looked again since getting home and there really doesn't seem to be anything available between me near Worthing and my friend at Guildford :(

On the plus side though the car decided it had a range of 109 miles after a full charge the next morning! Yeah right!
Just to confirm, do you have an Visia, Acenta or Tekna?
Also that you were charged to 100% when you set off?
 
#13 ·
That's the thing Brooktop, I do absolutely love the car but the infrastructure and the misinformation provided by Nissan's in car navigation is horrendous. Somewhat strangely we do seem to have lots of charging options locally for EVs so I really hadn't expected it to be so much of a problem. There's something like at least 5 fast chargers accessible all the time within about 10 miles and one rapid if you are there in opening hours.
 
#12 ·
You know what they say... Proper Planning Prevent P!ss Poor Performance...

Firstly, if you're going somewhere new, always carry the 3 pin plug charger and a decent extension lead.
Knowing you were half empty, a one hour charge outside your mates house would have fixed all the terror.
Even if you and your mate had to stand there with coats on drinking coffee so no one tripped over the cable (or just use a rubber door mat to cover the cable).

Secondly, the downhills *NEVER* cancel out the uphills. Hilly terrain is a battery killer... It's just physics.

Thirdly, for all new destinations, check the Electric Highway/ZapMap/OpenChargeMap - know the local chargers beforehand. Drop a message on this forum or Twitter to see if anyone knows if a specific chargers are working.

Fourthly, you realise the nickname for the Range Meter is the "G-O-M" or Guess-O-Meter? There's a reason for that... :)

Sadly most towns/cities have minimal charging infrastructure, it's a fact of life. You have to stick to the motorways for Ecotricitys Rapid charger network to cover big distances...
 
#15 ·
You know what they say... Proper Planning Prevent P!ss Poor Performance...

Firstly, if you're going somewhere new, always carry the 3 pin plug charger and a decent extension lead.
Knowing you were half empty, a one hour charge outside your mates house would have fixed all the terror.
Even if you and your mate had to stand there with coats on drinking coffee so no one tripped over the cable (or just use a rubber door mat to cover the cable).

Secondly, the downhills *NEVER* cancel out the uphills. Hilly terrain is a battery killer... It's just physics.

Thirdly, for all new destinations, check the Electric Highway/ZapMap/OpenChargeMap - know the local chargers beforehand. Drop a message on this forum or Twitter to see if anyone knows if a specific chargers are working.

Fourthly, you realise the nickname for the Range Meter is the "G-O-M" or Guess-O-Meter? There's a reason for that... :)

Sadly most towns/cities have minimal charging infrastructure, it's a fact of life. You have to stick to the motorways for Ecotricitys Rapid charger network to cover big distances...

I totally agree Leave, but sadly when I said no way I could charge at hers it's because the onstreet parking is too far away from her block of flats. Even with the extension lead and EVSE which I've got permanently in the boot, there's no way we could have done it unless we had 2 extension leads and I'd have worried that wouldn't have been safe.

I'd allowed for it being a guessometer but obviously not enough. lesson learned the hard way :(
 
#14 ·
Current BEV's are fine, within the limitations of their intended use, that is local trips. I wouldn't set out on a 70 mile trip without some pre-planning to make sure there was charging en route or at the destination. But it's easy to see how this can happen with dealers over selling the capabilities.
 
#16 ·
In all honesty I wouldn't even consider trying a 73 mile trip in my Leaf, unless there was slow charging with a stop in the middle or a rapid charger somewhere before the 50 mile mark. It just can't do it if you're travelling over 60mph OR there's rain, OR it's cold, OR there's a hill involved.
 
#19 ·
place is 36 miles from mine, according to the sat nav so I thought I'd be able to do it without charging. I was going to be stuck for time on arrival and no possibility of charging at hers because she only has on street parking. It was also going to be after midnight when I did the return journey...
I was slightly worried by this but figured there would be a charger fairly close somewhere, so we went off to our do in her car and I decided to search for a charger on returning. BIG mistake. .
It was cold, foggy and raining and I was on my own. I can honestly say I hated (...) the lack of infrastructure at that point. I was still 16 miles out when the low battery warning light came on and by the time I arrived home (thankfully) I had 7 miles left in the 'tank' and only 4% charge...
Most of us (?) have had one experience like that, but only one! You did well: 36*2+7 = 79 miles in dark, cold, rainy, foggy conditions is just about the maximum possible, even for a new Gen-2 Leaf. Always allow time for a quick en-route rapid top-up (~20 minutes) on the outbound trip and have the post codes for 2 or 3 rapid chargers on a piece of paper in your pocket... However, you're right about the B2133 - that's an appallingly bad road even in daytime! And Guildford (where I used to live) still has no sensible option for charging, even now!
 
#20 ·
That's just it Sparky, no rapids anywhere to pick up a charge from. I've done North Kent to West Sussex with less hassle than this trip was. I suppose I need to stop thinking that 36 miles is just up the road! I can't imagine that the Nissan garage in Guildford sells many Leafs!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kevin Sharpe
#21 ·
@Bikerchickone – I admire your courage in setting off in the expectation of finding public charging. Your LEAF is still a great car – it just that one of the compromises it requires is good route planning in advance, which is seldom wasted.

The best charging infrastructure is the Electric Highway on motorways and A roads. Most BEV drivers will go the longer route via the motorway to be sure of getting a charge. Also, topping up at the last services before heading away from the motorway is a good policy as it maximises options.

Always having the EVSE in the back is a good option – there's usually somewhere where you can blag a quick top up, which can make the difference between being stranded, total panic or being recovered on a flat bed truck. :)

We always coast down hill in neutral instead of regenerating, only using regen to brake for speed limit changes and junctions. It seems to work well in getting us extra range.
 
#22 ·
Thanks Robwiz, I'll try the neutral coasting! I can't seem to find out if the supposed chargers on the A3 do actually exist so I think I'm going to be planning my route to go up to the M25 J9/10 services for a rapid in the future. That should leave me more than able to complete the 45 miles home without the stress encountered this time. I do still love the car, but it is going to mean a bit of extra time for my meet ups in Guildford!
 
#23 ·
I realise that it is easy for me to be a smart Alec after the event (sorry - don't mean to be!) but you could have done that trip very easily, without stress and at any time day or night, any weather by going Worthing to Pease Pottage (26 miles) - Rapid charge then to Guildford (25 miles).

Assumes the Pease Pottage rapid is working which unfortunately at the moment is is not :(

Nevertheless... when it is working (hopefully soon!) you can easily visit your Guildford friends but it means going via Pease Pottage :) :)
 
#27 ·
I think the biggest issue / blame for the car's shortcomings is the fact that the Nissan Nav system is useless for finding chargers, I know it's a mish mash of suppliers / charger types / access hours etc but give us a chance! I can sympathise with the situation, I was travelling back from Derbyshire late last night on the M1 and there was a massive accident by Leicester, which would have meant no access to my last and crucial charge point at Leicester Forest East before leaving the motorway and heading into the countryside abyss. Only pure luck meant that I was in my ICE car and not the Leaf, mainly as I'm well over the contract mileage in the Leaf and haven't run the ICE on a long journey for a while. It got me thinking that you still have to be a bit bold to do a long journey in a BEV. Planning is crucial and so is building in redundancy, most folk just aren't ready for that yet. There's no reason why every large(ish) conurbation hasn't got a type 2 or rapid. Last night would have been horrendous if I'd have been stranded and though I carry the EVSE a nine hour 3 pin charge where ever I could beg one from wasn't a prospect that I would have relished.

.....EDIT, sorry forgot to add, I also struggle with data signal where we live and in these 'modern' times it's inexcusable, particularly with the dependence we have on such connectivity and the amount of money mobile operators make. To have such large black holes all over the country is a joke. The O2 site says we have 3 bars in our village ...... yeah right!!
 
#33 ·
Getting home counts as a win. You will look back on the stress as bad at the time but more satisfying for having come through it despite the conditions (hopefully).

Of a more practical note I notice that there is a new Sainsburys with charging listed on Pod Point at Godalming. If you are late in the evening then hopefully there is less chance of it being Ice'd.

I charged at Pease Pottage at 7am this morning. Still shown as out on the Ecotricity and Zap Maps.

We need more people to sign up on Plug-Share or similar. I bet there were dozens of EV owners near your route if only there was some better communication.
 
#34 ·
Getting home counts as a win. You will look back on the stress as bad at the time but more satisfying for having come through it despite the conditions (hopefully).

Of a more practical note I notice that there is a new Sainsburys with charging listed on Pod Point at Godalming. If you are late in the evening then hopefully there is less chance of it being Ice'd.

I charged at Pease Pottage at 7am this morning. Still shown as out on the Ecotricity and Zap Maps.

We need more people to sign up on Plug-Share or similar. I bet there were dozens of EV owners near your route if only there was some better communication.

Ah, good to hear that Pease Pottage is up and running again! Thanks!

Strangely the first thing I did when I got back was look at doing Plugshare. Such a simple idea and could get lots of us out of a hole really easily. The only think I did think was at the time of night I would have been returning, it may have been an issue to get the key to turn a home charger off.

Does anyone know if anyone on here shares their home charger? I'd be willing but not sure how it would work, especially since we aren't always around at the same times each week.
 
#35 ·
I don't share it on Plug Share, but have made occasional offers in private. No one has taken me up on it.

There isn't much public charging on Anglsey, so I'll sometimes offer to help people visiting the island.
 
#36 ·
I have chosen not to share my home charger. I realise that it is probably not a popular decision but I feel very uncomfortable sharing my personal details publicly in that way. I also feel that using charging pods in a stranger's home is not the way to promote and grow confidence in EVs. What message does it send out to prospective EV owners when they see that to do long trips you have to rely upon the goodwill and generosity of strangers.
 
#37 ·
@Bikerchickone I'm sorry the Leaf's range is not communicated better by dealers and the wider EV community. Clearly we need to do more to help prospective owners so that the reality of a 70 Mile trip in the Leaf is better understood today.

Personally I think the PHEV is a better solution for most people today. Eventually increased BEV range and/or more reliable charging infrastructure will provide a realistic ICE alternative but that's years away IMO.

Good luck :)
 
#38 ·
I'm a little surprised that people are saying a 70 mile (112 km) trip is too optimistic. I do a round trip like that every day, and have never come home with less than 20% charge left (20% was left after driving 110 km/h on crise control for most of the way).

Most of the time, real range seems to be between 150 and 160 km (95-100 mile). Not even really trying to push it.

I also have had the LEAF for only a few weeks and have driven in mostly favorable weather (low teens at ) worst. But turning on the airco didn't really seem to have much impact on range (car says -4 km or something like that). In my case the route is almost all highway, in that very flat country called Holland.

I'm counting on being able to make my round trip even at the end of my 4 year lease and allowing for bad weather. But fortunately in Holland there are plenty of opportunities for charging for the occasional time I need it.
 
#40 ·
I'm a little surprised that people are saying a 70 mile (112 km) trip is too optimistic.
Driving patterns and terrain have a considerable impact on range just as much as ambient temperature does. If you have the misfortune to need to stop at numerous intersections this will cost you range. If you need to drive over hilly terrain this will also cost you range. Likewise, turning on the heater will cost you range as will driving at speeds where wind drag becomes a significant factor.

Truth is that actual range can only ever be accurately predicted once it has been established. If you've never driven from point A to point B before, and if the number of stops or the terrain is unknown then it's impossible accurately say whether or not point B is within range unless point B is dramatically within the limits of the predicted range that there is little risk of any problem. The tough drive is the first one - when you're trying to determine whether or not point B is within range. Once you've made that drive you can then reproduce that drive very predictably under similar conditions.

It's why having a range extender on an EV with a short (<100 mi) all-electric range is so attractive and pragmatic at the present. You don't experience anxiety over whether or not point B is within range. When the public charging infrastructure (and especially destination charging - imagine if the OP had been able to charge while parked on the street in Guildford) is more prolific then range anxiety is much-less pronounced.
 
#39 ·
Well done for making it and learning the hard way, tuff at the time but a great lesson.
We bought our car last year same time as you, just before the temperatures dropped and weather turned.
The 7 miles GOM range with 4% left is an insight in to your hypermiling ability!
Most folks find it hard to get 1 mile per percent.
If you kit up with Leafspy you will soon know how far you can really go. After 4 miles on the GOM you get three dashes to scare you. You are now in to the dark side. However it will still have that 3 miles range plus another 8 or 10 at the rate you were using the power at the end. If you get close in behind a horse box even more than that;).
There is about 1.5 usable Kw/h it hides form you in addition to that which you can't use. Try a local test until the turtle appears indicating reduced power. Assuming no hills it will still do another half a mile but if you stop it won't go in to drive again so pull in somewhere safe in that last half mile. I have 2 extensions using household 16 amp cable with the lead running through a sawn off plastic bottle as emergency waterproofing at the join.

Oh and don't forget to turn aircon off after it is demisted.

20K miles in a year and no worries now:)

Hope that helps.
 
#42 ·
At 3 years, with 8% capacity loss, and tyres at 44psi, I can't make 63 miles at 65mph in drizzle, I tried a few weeks ago. Fortunately I was able to stop and use a rapid at ~50 miles.
 
#43 ·
Firstly, congratulations on getting there and back without conking out. To be honest, I think we have all had similar experiences to yours, although some have ended less well. In my son's case, he pushed a bit too hard, found that the Northampton rapid was out of action and then needed a flatbed to take him to the next charger. Unfortunately the jobsworth driving the flatbed dropped him at Northampton dealer at about 5.30 on a Friday evening when the dealer wanted to pack up at 6 and our car is a 3.3. My son had to close the gate behind him after 2 hours' charging to make sure he got to Watford Gap. The flatbed could have got him there in 20 minutes...

I think those of us who bought our cars in the spring of this year (Feb 28th for me) have been spoiled by the beautiful summer weather and have a bit of learning to do. I've managed 100 miles out of a battery twice, once on purpose and once by accident, but on both occasions the conditions were perfect: dry, warm, little wind. The past couple of weeks have been a bit like a cold bath, in more ways than one. On Saturday I drove to Maidstone (50-ish miles, daughter lives there) and for 20 or so of those miles there was torrential rain. I left home with 100% but felt I needed to drop in on the Medway services as I reckon I'd chewed my way through an extra 15% of battery charge with all the water lying on the road slowing me down. Going to off-piste rapid chargers adds something like 20% to the mileage as well, so if I was going to take daughter and grandchildren anywhere I needed the charge.

You've made a great decision, going for the 6.6 charger. By my reckoning you charge at about 35 mph. I've got a 3.3 but a 32 amp point at home, and I think I charge at 17mph. Even if you drop in on a post somewhere en route for 15 minutes, you will have given yourself something like 9 miles more range.

You have temporarily fallen out of love with your car, as I did with mine in March. Remember this: electricity is much more readily available than petrol and for some reason we, as EV owners, gain the impression that it's scarcer. Pretty well every house in the country has a 240-volt supply in an emergency and where there's a will you can normally get a charge. Not that I'm recommending you knocking on some stranger's house at 10 pm and saying "Sorry to trouble you, but can I plug my car into your kitchen for 2 hours?". What I'm saying is that, as EVs become more commonplace, we are all going to look back on the early days with a mixture of horror and nostalgia and wonder how we ever managed, as our local councils, typically a conservative lot (in more ways than one) catch onto the advantages to everyone of EVs and start providing a readily available infrastructure.

Meanwhile, it helps to be a bit inventive. Today, my wife and I were looking after the grandchildren again, as we do pretty well every Thursday. Our daughter lives in a traditional Victorian terraced house, so charging is a problem. I solved it by parking the car immediately outside her house, plugging my 13 amp extension lead into her bedroom socket, shoving the lead out of the window to the passenger window on the far side of the car and pulling it tight. The EVSE was plugged into the other end of the extension lead inside the car and the EVSE came out of the driver's window and plugged into the front of the car. As it happens the weather was good, but even if it had been raining all the hardware was under cover. There was no trip hazard, unless an Olympic high jumper had just happened to be passing. We got a lovely 85% charge over about 5 hours and didn't need to divert to a rapid charger on our way home.
 
#44 ·
Charging a car in the street from the power supply in an adjacent house poses multiple risks including trip hazard as mentioned. Those risks also include an increased risk of electric shock / electrocution from simultaneous access to dissimilar earthing systems.
 
#52 ·
House probably has a TN-C-S / PME taken from the supply cable to the house.
Street furniture is big bits of metal buried in ground - effectively TT - a local earth.
If anyone can touch the car and street furniture (e.g. steet sign, lamppost, bus shelter, metal fence) simultaneously then they have access to dissimilar earthing systems,
 
#46 ·
Thank you all for your thoughts. It's definitely been a very steep learning curve! I think in part I hadn't attempted to get to any of the potential chargers because I really wasn't convinced they would be there, or even be working!

I shall probably take the petrol car next time and do a check of the alleged chargers so that I know for when I want to take Evie. I definitely won't be doing it straight off in the Leaf again late at night!
 
#48 ·
It's not the local ones I'm worried about Wowbagger, I've got lots of them to choose from. It's the fact that an awful lot of my friends live in the Guildford area and there appears to be no realistic charging options late at night when I'm likely to want them :(

I'm not sure I want to risk another nightmare journey to see if I can find any chargers. Though I do think Surrey council should be doing something for us EV users.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kevin Sharpe
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top