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Discussion Starter #1
Hi all,
at the moment we are planning our Easter week with the thought of taking the Leaf... yes, a long trip indeed and a bit scary. Currently we have a hotel booked halfway (Northampton), and we are looking at the time it is going to take etc. to make the decision.
So this is what I have at the moment:
Home to Perth - top up (4 bars) to 100%
Edinburgh -IKEA or Nissan
St.Boswells
Hexham
Middleton
MOTO Wetherby
Harthill
MOTO Services (Donnington park circuit)
Welcome break Leicester forrest
Northampton services -> Hotel (Wooton Hall Park)

Depending on how the journey goes, we might skip one towards the end.
The rest I still have to calculate, we have to get to the tunnel, and I think that the last bit is a bit thin of chargers.

In France, we will need a charge as soon as we arrive in Calais to set us up nicely, and I think there is a Renault garage we should be able to use. We will need one additional charge to get to the place, and Rouen has a rapid charger.

I throw this out to all of you, that have driven part (or most) of this journey for advice, fall back and alternative routes/chargers. As I said, this is a long journey with the family, and we are not 100% yet, although it is seriously considered by myself and my wife that this is possible.
 

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@E.Oosterhoorn just a couple of observations... yesterday a Leaf driver reported on twitter that 16 Ecotricity rapid chargers were offline... network reliability and queuing might be something to consider if you have the family in the car :rolleyes:

I'm also not sure that the Renault garages in France have DC rapid chargers or allow Leaf's to charge... maybe you know more about that?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yes, I am looking at that as well Kevin. That's why I am looking at additional charging options when there is one out.
I am not sure about the garages in France, but I am also in contact with a leaf driver in France (Dutch, lived in Scotland and now in France) and I am hoping for information from him about this type of things.
As I said, if it looks like it could be a bit too much, we have to take the ICE. As much as I hate to do that, it's still a holiday and we need to get there :).
 

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Yes, I am looking at that as well Kevin. That's why I am looking at ....
Kevin (and others) will try to argue against long-haul in the Leaf (or any short-range BEV) - but their statements are not borne out by the facts. The journey from Perth to Portsmouth has so many chargers to choose from - you cannot go wrong! You just have to make sure you manage carefully range/DTG and know where the alternate charging points are! Be aware that for most M1 service areas you can use the service road to cross to the service area on the opposite side of the motorway. If you are travelling with kids - they will love the adventure! I suggest you will need at least one night stop.
Local touring in France by EV will be epic and you will have all that petrol budget saved - to blow on 'moules frites' and 'crepe suzette'. Just to proved how easy the length of UK is - I'll drop off the Type-3 cable, in Perth (dep from Berks), on my way to the Highlands - in a really-short range BEV!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Brian, am I conversing with you on the LeafTalk at the moment?
(Sorry, I am having this thread also on another forum as to 'catch' as many members with information as possible)

Yes, there are multiple charge options as soon as I am getting past the half way line... I am not too worried about that either, unless there is an area that is completely 'out'. If we go I will contact Ecotricity with the intended route and ask to let me know if I need to change things due to failed or under repair chargers.
 

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Kevin (and others) will try to argue against long-haul in the Leaf (or any short-range BEV) - but their statements are not borne out by the facts.
If you read my post you'll find it was a Leaf driver who reported 16 rapid chargers down yesterday and I count 11 today so I'm not sure how that is "not borne out by the facts".

Given @E.Oosterhoorn has his family in the car and the purpose is to drive to France via Calais I would advice caution because not everyone enjoys the experience of charger failure or a missed ferry.

I've driven across Europe several times in an EV and the only problem I've ever had was a charging cable unplugged at a Hotel. I treat my 'long range' EV as a car not a science experiment :p
 

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The facts are not in dispute - availability/reliability of Rapid Charger nothing short of a 'public disgrace'. However, your lack of experience in a short-range EV is obvious - a charger out is rarely an issue with today's density of charging. You just run short, or run long and charge when/ where available. Provided drivers don't try for huge daily mileage then it's all straightforward - not a science experiment, at all.
Frankly, Tesla/Ampera owners need to stop inputting into discussions about short-range BEV Ops and the infrastructure that we use and you do not!:)
 

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Frankly, Tesla/Ampera owners need to stop inputting into discussions about short-range BEV Ops and the infrastructure that we use and you do not!:)
I can charge my Tesla Roadster at 70A (~17kW) on a dual/triple head 'rapid' charger but they never work long enough to warrant the diversion. Owners of long range Tesla Model S will be able to charge at ~20kW so reliability is important to them as well. This isn't about long v short range EVs, its' about charging network RELIABILITY and I have every right to use the networks that I paid for (as do all Tesla and Ampera drivers).
 

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I can charge my Tesla Roadster at 70A (~17kW) on a dual/triple head 'rapid' charger but they never work long enough to warrant the diversion. Owners of long range Tesla Model S will be able to charge at ~20kW so reliability is important to them as well. This isn't about long v short range EVs, its' about charging network RELIABILITY.
Given the choice I would buy my luggage from Louis Vitton and my clothes from Saville Row. However, I settle for Ralph Lauren and Thomas Pink - their clothes suit my budget and lifestyle - and for transport, I'm only too happy to drive a Mitsubishi, which is 1/5th Tesla Price and who's range meets 98% of my daily needs. I'm very happy that my long halt trips have a challenge in it. RELIABILITY is NOT an absolute requirement. Life is all about making judgements on trade offs?
In my view mass marked adoption of EVs will be based on 'economic benefits' - not on having range you rarely use?
There is no economic argument for the Big-T! There is no hope of a return on investment (ROI). Conversely, as short-range (non-flex) BEV will return 100% of its purchase price!
 

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@brian orr this thread is about a 2,200+ km drive by @E.Oosterhoorn in a Leaf with his family. IMO charging reliability is an important consideration and thats why I raised it.

Looking at your posts here and in G+ you clearly dislike Tesla, or the people who can afford them, and I suggest you start another thread to discuss that if you wish.
 

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Looking at your posts here and in G+ you clearly dislike Tesla, or the people who can afford them, and I suggest you start another thread to discuss that if you wish.
My input is about the 'acceptability' of the infrastructure for a long range-BEV journey. It is you who introduces again-and-again the superiority of Tesla. It is you who needs to separate apples from the pumpkin!
BEV drivers are achieving the distances with relative ease (Threads Zoe from Yorks to Worthing and 300 miles on a whim) showed that it is straightforward.
Just do it Mhr Ooosterhorn - enjoy the challenge and savour Normandy's gastronomic delights - paid for by your fuel savings! For sure I will be dining on Scotland's 'finest' and will toast your success!
 

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I wouldn't do any trip in a 100% BEV using the public charging of today (particularly rapid charging) if I had an important deadline that I couldn't miss.

If I am going to use the Nissan Leaf for important trips such as going to an airport or ferry port to go abroad, important meeting, etc then I will go the day before and stay overnight near my destination. If the chargers break on the way I have time then to get recovered or to hire an ICE to do the trip.

I am doing a few long trips in the next few weeks and I will be doing just that... staying overnight the night before in a hotel. OK... I have to spend money on the hotel but if it is a long trip then I am probably saving just as much on not buying petrol/diesel so that is fine.

If I had young kids then I probably wouldn't even consider it at all at the moment.
 

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I don't disagree with the comments about hotels. As I said in a previous post Mhr Oosterhoorn would be advised to make at least 1 night stop. As Paul says you need to be careful if you have a fixed ticket or a meeting - but that's my practice with an ICE car too. Certainly with LHR/LGW the risks of traffic disruption are to high - BEV is no different.

As for kids, well if they are over 5 they will see a BEV journey as a 'great adventure' and whatever 'surprises' happen on the journey - will make their day! My daughter-in-law went to LHR with 2 small kids and found their flight cancelled. They found themselves shuttled to hotel and my son meeting them at ABN also elected to nightstop. It was 20 hrs before the journey was complete (1 more cancellation). When I met the kids 2 weeks later - they were still thrilled with the experience!

In 20,000 EV miles if had only one unplanned night-stop (in the York black hole)?
To travel long haul in a BEV you should not set unreasonable targets - if you do then be prepared to take the consequences - you've probably saved £50-60 on fuel, so you are unlikely to have a net loss by having a night-stop.

I'm sure it's obvious - when travelling long haul the technique is NOT to maximise every leg. That has too many risks. My technique involves charging to 90% max, often only 80% and minimise the stop time. Staying on the charger to 100% takes too long. If I arrive with 20 miles range to spare - that is just fine. Again there is a time penalty if you drive the battery level down to single figures! I refer to this technique as sling-shotting - there are more stops, but counter-intuitively the journey time is less! The risk from charger failure is also much reduced.
 

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All this bickering takes me back to the golden days of motoring.

A two gallon tin of petroleum spirit strapped to the running board, a couple of rims ready for punctures and a toddle off around the estate by the well healed owner.

Every trip away was an adventure and that was the whole aim of the trip, pushing back the boundaries and having fun, often returning with a horse towing the car.

Comparison with the train or the horse was made to the detriment of the automobile, but the information gained and the money input by the early adopters founded an industry, for better or worse is up for discussion.

Go ahead with the trip, enjoy yourself and push back the boundaries a little.
We all know this will be the future, (perhaps).
 

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I don't see any bickering!!! Why do people consider this bickering? This is a forum... it is all about discussion and hearing differing points of view! That is why I am a member!!!

Sure, I agree, go ahead and enjoy yourself! I don't think anyone is saying don't if that is what you want to do. I do it but then I don't have kids or have many trips with important deadlines.

I think it is important that people get to discuss these issues openly so everyone can hear the facts and the realities of EV ownership as it is today.

Remember... if pushing boundaries is your thing then great! Do it! But not everyone wants the risk or the stress and so listening to the advice here will help you decide if it is for you. Using an EV for your everyday trips inside the range is not stressful, risky or difficult... going outside the range and using public charging right now can be. That is a fact of life right now and people need to hear it.

Sorry :)
 

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Paul is correct - its not a useful chat room unless people can express their ideas - freely! It's goog when the language stays moderate, as it has here (pretty wells). It's only bickering, when people get personal, or dismiss opinions, without contributing to the debate.:rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Reading the replies with interest and we have not made up our mind. I take all advice on board, and I think that all of you have a point. In regards with the kids, they are 12 and 15, and I am not sure if this is an adventure for them if we get stranded etc. One of the concerns is the time it might take, we are stopping in Northampton in a hotel regardless which transport we use. Personally I don't mind too much how long it takes, as long as there is something we can do while we wait (if we have to use a fast charger to get us to the next point) but I don't want to arrive at our destination late at night either. As I said, we have not decided yet and I think it is doable but there are some buts.
Looking forward to more discussion on this and I will let you know what we decide ...
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I have, and it is not a pretty picture. I have to be able to get through without the fear that we have to take much longer or worst we get stranded and need rescued. I am keeping an eye on multiple forums and twitter feeds.
 

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I just wouldn't risk it. I would do it if I had open tickets and therefore time-pressure was off, but I think you have to decide between at the moment between an adventure (and allowing that adventures are, by nature, a little risky) and a journey. Your plans I would say are in the "adventure" category... if you're happy with that, go for it, if not, play it safe. We won't judge you*.


*we will. ;)
 
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