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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Probably a daft question but is a PHEV more complicated and therefore more failure prone than a BEV?
I ask the question because I have had a rather disconcerting failure in a PHEV which is in the garage these last 7 days with inconclusive diagnostics. The initial message was brake system failure but I am wondering if it is a CEM issue. Maybe the dealer is thinking the same. They are suggesting that the wiring is not covered by the extended warranty but that’s another story.
it is a little ironic as I was planning to trade the PHEV for a BEV by year end. With this carry-on, hopefully to be resolved, I might be inclined to go back to an ICE or maybe go lease rather than purchase.
Any thoughts welcomed.
thanks
 

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I would say there is more to go wrong with a PHEV as there are simply more parts to go wrong in the car than a BEV. BEV’s should be more reliable than any other type of car as they have less moving parts. I think the issue is that when they do go wrong, most garages can’t fix them so you are held to ransom by the dealers. Any BEV I have owned has been within its warranty and either pcp or lease.
 

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PHEV is the worst of both worlds imo, and one of the big reasons is the complexity and amount of extra parts that have the potential to fail.

While many people call these cars gateway drugs to the EV world I have seen a lot of people be completely put off making the full switch after trying out one of these plug in hybrids and go back to ICE as a result.

EV subscriptions may be worth looking at? Companies like ONTO would remove a lot of risk associated with ownership and if something went catastrophically wrong it's not your problem to worry about, you just ask for another car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I would say there is more to go wrong with a PHEV as there are simply more parts to go wrong in the car than a BEV. BEV’s should be more reliable than any other type of car as they have less moving parts. I think the issue is that when they do go wrong, most garages can’t fix them so you are held to ransom by the dealers. Any BEV I have owned has been within its warranty and either pcp or lease.
Thanks and yes after 4 years of faultless reliability I find myself moving to that conclusion. Hopefully the PHEV problems can be rectified and the warranty honoured without too many shenanigans. I should probably have moved it on at the 3 year point.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
PHEV is the worst of both worlds imo, and one of the big reasons is the complexity and amount of extra parts that have the potential to fail.

While many people call these cars gateway drugs to the EV world I have seen a lot of people be completely put off making the full switch after trying out one of these plug in hybrids and go back to ICE as a result.

EV subscriptions may be worth looking at? Companies like ONTO would remove a lot of risk associated with ownership and if something went catastrophically wrong it's not your problem to worry about, you just ask for another car.
Whilst at the time it feels like you are getting the best of both worlds. For four years it has been faultless and has proved to be something of a gateway drug as you describe it. I was all ready to make the switch. I think that you are right - subscription might be the safe way to go. Meantime I am reserving judgement on the extended warranty and what support I get.
 

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I would say it is the best ant the worst from both worlds.
While a PHEV has the complexities of both ICE and BEV it also leverages the advantages of both. By using the battery on short journeys the worst profile for the combustível engine is reduced and by using the ice on long trips the Fast charging stress is also reduced.
Apart from that the vehicles should be the "same".
Most of the BEV issues are due to being build on new plattforms experiencing growing pains.

On long term the BEV has the potencial to be more reliable, specially on the electric side, but on the bsttery and Software site there is still a lot to came...
 

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Although hybrids of any flavour are more complex than either straight ICE or BEV, both powertrains should be reliable these days.

Problems like that described seen common in all modern cars - electronics issues that the maintainers struggle to diagnose, and when they do it usually needs a new and expensive module. I can't see EVs being any different as they have basically the same amount of electronics.
 

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My initial experience was the reverse - six years of trouble-free motoring in the Prius PHEV, a cell failure in the first month of the Leaf that necessitated a two week stay in the Gateshead Hospital for Sick Leafs. But it’s been trouble-free again for the two years since then.

In other words, I think failures are rare enough that anecdotal evidence doesn’t tell you much. Personally I’ve tended to go for the companies that have been in the respective markets for a while (hence my choices) so that I’m not in bleeding edge technology, but that’s only because I don’t know enough to make sensible comparisons.
 

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A PHEV is at least twice as complicated and twice as likely to suffer a component failure than a BEV. This is because it has 2 drivetrains, a combustion one and an electric one rather than just one or the other. But on top of that there is additional engineering and software to integrate the two different drivetrains into one source of motive power. A BEV drivetrain has far fewer components and much reduced complexity compared to just combustion alone anyway and therefore is far less likely to suffer a component failure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
A PHEV is at least twice as complicated and twice as likely to suffer a component failure than a BEV. This is because it has 2 drivetrains, a combustion one and an electric one rather than just one or the other. But on top of that there is additional engineering and software to integrate the two different drivetrains into one source of motive power. A BEV drivetrain has far fewer components and much reduced complexity compared to just combustion alone anyway and therefore is far less likely to suffer a component failure.
Yes that makes sense. You sort of hope that they will not go wrong given the price that you pay for them. The extended warranty was purchased after 3 years with that risk factor in mind. Will just have to wait and see if the outlay is going to cover the rectification .thanks
 

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Are there not PHEvs that are propelled by electric motor only, just using the petrol engine as a generator to top up the battery on demand? (so no extra mechanical drivetrain complexity) I thought the new HEV Clio was like this, or a friend who is buying one claimed it was.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Are there not PHEvs that are propelled by electric motor only, just using the petrol engine as a generator to top up the battery on demand? (so no extra mechanical drivetrain complexity) I thought the new HEV Clio was like this, or a friend who is buying one claimed it was.
Would that be so called self-charging Phevs? Or maybe Rex as appeared in BMW i3?
 

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A PHEV is at least twice as complicated and twice as likely to suffer a component failure than a BEV.
That may be true in the very restricted sense of the actual power plant, but is not true of the vehicle as a whole.
Many faults are in other areas which are common to both types - it wouldn't surprise me if most problems with newish cars of any type are non-power plant related.
 

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That may be true in the very restricted sense of the actual power plant, but is not true of the vehicle as a whole.
Many faults are in other areas which are common to both types - it wouldn't surprise me if most problems with newish cars of any type are non-power plant related.
I was talking about the very real sense in which the number of moving parts in the vehicle as a whole are substantially increased for a PHEV compared to a BEV. Thus substantially increasing the associated risk of component failure.
 

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I was talking about the very real sense in which the number of moving parts in the vehicle as a whole are substantially increased for a PHEV compared to a BEV. Thus substantially increasing the associated risk of component failure.
You are not thinking this through because by your logic, a 6 or 8cylinder engine would be less reliable than a 3 or 4 cyclinder one or an automatic gearbox would be less reliable than a manual one. Word would soon spread if any HEV/PHEV had reliability issues.
 

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You are not thinking this through because by your logic, a 6 or 8cylinder engine would be less reliable than a 3 or 4 cyclinder one or an automatic gearbox would be less reliable than a manual one. Word would soon spread if any HEV/PHEV had reliability issues.
I'm just answering the original poster's question "Probably a daft question but is a PHEV more complicated and therefore more failure prone than a BEV?" It's a fact that a PHEV has substantially more moving parts than a BEV and therefore it makes sense that it increases the chance of a component failure.
 

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I'm just answering the original poster's question "Probably a daft question but is a PHEV more complicated and therefore more failure prone than a BEV?" It's a fact that a PHEV has substantially more moving parts than a BEV and therefore it makes sense that it increases the chance of a component failure.
We'll have to agree to disagree as you have no evidence whatsoever that these vehicles are more unreliable anymore than a 6cyl ICE is less reliable than a 4cylinder. Chance doesn't come into it.
 

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We'll have to agree to disagree as you have no evidence whatsoever that these vehicles are more unreliable anymore than a 6cyl ICE is less reliable than a 4cylinder. Chance doesn't come into it.
Yes I have had two Honda Hybrids and found them both very reliable and the Gen 1 is a very old design
 

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My previous car was a CRZ hybrid and it too was faultless. However, it was what would be called these days, a mild hybrid since the car was only propelled by the 1.5l petrol engine ably assisted by a 15kw motor, which charged its own battery when not assisting the engine.
 
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