[Njh11]

Novice question!... I am considering buying a Land Rover Discovery PHEV. It states a total of 309bhp from the 1.5 litre 3-cylinder petrol engine combined with the electric motor.

We are a large family (3 kids) that live in an urban area so many (most) journeys are 10 miles or less. However, we also have parents in York & Newcastle and therefore do a 300 mile drive every 8-12 weeks or so (in normal times).

So, my question is about the PHEV performance on the motorway (less so the economy). After 30 miles on the M1 am I going to be left with a flat battery and trying to power a loaded-up two tonne car with a 1.5 litre 3 cylinder engine? (ie. Dead slow). If so, I am not really up for this....

... or does the electric motor somehow get powered by the petrol (or another way), meaning the full 309bhp remains available??..

I am going to test drive one soon and basically drive it right round the M25!....

 

[Mrklaw]

If you’re driving in electric mode you only have 100HP equivalent but that’s fine for short range driving. So the 200HP engine should also be fine for motorways.

 

[DrMagical]

You wouldn't drive until the battery was flat then switch to petrol, you'd be in hybrid mode and the car would use the battery only when low speed or coasting, or to boost the petrol engine when accelerating, etc. The battery would be charging as you decelerate or brake or from the engine when required. You'd have all the power all the time that you needed.

 

[Geoff_S]

Really do take it for a proper test drive.

I test drove a Range Rover Sport PHEV. I was just given the keys and told to take it out for 3-4 hours! Strange I thought, at the time.

It was fully charged and off I went, in silence. My first experience of EV and really cool.

As for the 31 miles electric only range, my a**e. I think I've posted this story here before, but I recall it was about 15 miles and I was on the motorway. It felt like it
was about to die. Of course it didn't, it does have a 300hp 2.0 petrol engine so made reasonable progress. But care if wanting to overtake, it's not fast.

Then we came to a hilly area and tried it out there. Again, we made progress but oh boy, it was laboured!

Arriving back at the dealership, some time and many miles later, the battery charge showed 2 miles available. So much for charging itself.

Anyway, we didn't get one as that just does not suit my driving profile, others it may, so I'm not going to get involved in a PHEV slanging match. It can work for others.

So again, make sure you get it on a long test drive and satisfy yourself that it matches your needs.

Good luck!

 

[Njh11]

Excellent, thank you Geoff_S. This is exactly what I was worried about. I am not really up for compromising the experience on longer drives. Will take one on a long long test drive and see how it feels. I had hoped that the electric motor is somehow powered by petrol once the batteries have given up (ie. Meaning the available performance remains the same, just worse economy) but if this is not the case, I don't see how a 2 tonne car with 5 people and luggage in it can be adequately powered by a 1.5 litre 3-cylinder petrol engine...

Really do take it for a proper test drive.

I test drove a Range Rover Sport PHEV. I was just given the keys and told to take it out for 3-4 hours! Strange I thought, at the time.

It was fully charged and off I went, in silence. My first experience of EV and really cool.

As for the 31 miles electric only range, my a**e. I think I've posted this story here before, but I recall it was about 15 miles and I was on the motorway. It felt like it
was about to die. Of course it didn't, it does have a 300hp 2.0 petrol engine so made reasonable progress. But care if wanting to overtake, it's not fast.

Then we came to a hilly area and tried it out there. Again, we made progress but oh boy, it was laboured!

Arriving back at the dealership, some time and many miles later, the battery charge showed 2 miles available. So much for charging itself.

Anyway, we didn't get one as that just does not suit my driving profile, others it may, so I'm not going to get involved in a PHEV slanging match. It can work for others.

So again, make sure you get it on a long test drive and satisfy yourself that it matches your needs.

Good luck!

 

[SHL-Kelso]

It depends on the PHEV. The Mitsubishi Outlander can be used in EV-only mode (but is a bit lethargic on battery-only power), but will also blend the petrol engine and motors for full performance when needed. When the battery runs out in normal use you still have a large buffer for assisted use when the ICE needs more grunt, and it will happily drop back to EV use for a mile or two as the ICE outs charge back into the battery. You can also control the operating mode to some extent - hit the EV button and you’ll be on battery drive mode (unless you hit full throttle for an overtake), or it’s very cold and you have the climate control set to make the cabin very warm. You also have Save mode - switches back to ICE and maintains the battery state of charge for when you want to deploy it again, but will also use any excess battery charge to run in EV mode for short periods too. This allows you to keep the battery power for where it’s most beneficial, so use it in town rather than on national speed limit roads (where the battery range is significantly reduced). Charge mode is like Save except it keeps topping up the battery as you drive, so the ICE runs continuously. This uses more fuel than running in Save mode. Or just leave it in standard (auto) mode and let the car decide how to use the available battery charge.

There is a reduced power mode which kicks in of you drive very spiritedly and manage to use up the lower buffer, so here the drive is ICE-o my with no further battery/motor assistance until the charge levels have built back up again. I’ve had this happen once or twice with fast cross-country driving where I was using full acceleration out of bends constantly (empty roads and no passengers in the car), but I’ve not had this happen in normal use.

The 2.4l 2018- Outlander PHEV has been my only PHEV experience, so I cannot comment on how other PHEVs with different strategies to blend ICE and battery perform.

 

[farmergiles]

Excellent, thank you Geoff_S. This is exactly what I was worried about. I am not really up for compromising the experience on longer drives. Will take one on a long long test drive and see how it feels. I had hoped that the electric motor is somehow powered by petrol once the batteries have given up (ie. Meaning the available performance remains the same, just worse economy) but if this is not the case, I don't see how a 2 tonne car with 5 people and luggage in it can be adequately powered by a 1.5 litre 3-cylinder petrol engine...

You'd be surprised at how good the small petrol motors are thanks to having a turbo so don't let that put you off. Most 'supercars' have nothing more than a 2L petrol turbo tuned to well over 300bhp.
The reason why the turbo makes such a difference is because of the high boost pressure. E.g if the pressure is +1bar - ie atmospheric x 2, then the result is like an engine of twice the capacity of a non turbo since twice as much air is being pumped in.
Also the EV side will be great for the urban journeys, (EV range is better at low speeds) and the motor works from zero mph to supply the torque whilst the turbo spools up.

A test drive is essential but bear in mind the electric motor is mainly for low speed so do not judge on EV range out of town.

 

[Mrklaw]

It’s still a 2 ton car with a 200ho petrol engine when the battery runs out. That might not be what you’re used to but there are plenty of cars in the road with that level of performance and weight

 

[RunningStrong]

Check out "Harry's Farm/Garage" on YouTube, he compares the BMW and Landover PHEV systems and ultimately goes for the BMW I believe in the end because of the larger engine on longer journeys, whilst also being very effective as an EV on local trips (and over fields!).

 

[KenB]

Is that 150ml each way ? If so i have to feel there are better solutions particularly if there is destination charging available.

 

[Njh11]

No - 300 miles London to Newcastle; 200 miles London to York. I’m not interested in getting a full electric car. Don’t want to be stressing about trying to find a charger with 3 kids in the back and waiting an hour to charge a car. The infrastructure and battery endurance is not there yet (for me).

Is that 150ml each way ? If so i have to feel there are better solutions particularly if there is destination charging available.

 

[cdlb]

I haven't driven the Land Rover, but my VW PHEV on motorways is fine for me.

In pure EV mode, it doesn't have a lot of poke at motorway speeds, but it'll happily cruise at 70mph. The key thing to keep in mind is that the WLTP range of 36 miles (or whatever it is) isn't for motorway speeds, it will either be "city" or "combined" driving (the spec sheet should be clear about which it is). In the same way that you wouldn't expect maximum fuel economy at 70mph, you shouldn't expect maximum EV range at 70mph. And marketing material is never written to be clear, it is written to grab your attention. I can certainly get the range quoted in my car's marketing material, but no way in hell can I do it at 70mph. Wind resistance is a bitch.

In hybrid mode, my car will use mostly the engine at motorway speeds, with a little battery assistance to improve MPG (unless you tell it not to). Under very light load (e.g. downhill sections), it'll switch the engine off and just run on the battery. My car always keeps a little battery in reserve, so if you floor it, it can run the engine and electric motor in parallel to give full power for an overtake. It'll then recharge the battery when it gets the chance - either from regen (doesn't happen often on the motorway) or a small top up using the engine when you're back to cruising. If you floor it a lot, the battery will eventually get low enough that it won't give you full power - at that point, it'll get sluggish. But you need to floor it quite a bit to do that.

My car also has the "GTE" mode (a fancy sports mode), where it basically runs in hybrid mode but keeps a lot more power in the battery and recharges it much more aggressively. You can thoroughly hoon it in that mode and basically always have full power.

You really need to test drive it to work out what all of the different modes do and see if performance is good enough for you, and do the maths to work out of it makes sense financially. For me, I think I worked out that a diesel Passat is more expensive (from a fuel consumption point of view) until about 150 miles, and above 150 miles, the PHEV Passat is more expensive (assuming that it started with a full charge) - which fits my driving profile fine as most of my driving is short range.

I made a point of running the battery as flat as possible during the test drive to see what it would do and to make sure that I saw the car at it's worst. Highly recommend that you do that your on test drive. I'd also suggest taking it around country roads, rather than motorways - they're much better for working the car hard and checking performance.

The other thing to consider is how many buttons the car has for controlling drive mode. Mine has a stupid number of options (EV mode, hybrid auto, battery hold, battery level reserve, 'GTE' mode, etc...), I really like this because I control the car and know exactly what it'll do based on how I've set it up, but it won't be everybody's cup of tea. Other cars will just have EV and hybrid mode, which is much better if you want a simple life, but you're at the whims of the car about how it'll respond in a given situation because it'll be doing what it thinks is best.

 

[farmergiles]

The only problem is that some PHEV drivers selfishly plug in at AC rapid chargers at service stations trying to top their battery up thereby preventing a full BEV from charging. That is seen as selfish behaviour as the PHEV doesn't actually need the charge to be able to continue on its journey.

In my opinion, it won't be soon enough until they ban PHEVs and all the hybrid nonsense that just prolongs the toxic atmosphere near our roads. Get yourself a full BEV and adapt accordingly.

That is happening in the UK but not until 2035, by which time there should be ample public chargers. (we hope)

The phasing out of free charging will deter PHEV drivers from public chargers.

 

[cdlb]

In my opinion, it won't be soon enough until they ban PHEVs and all the hybrid nonsense that just prolongs the toxic atmosphere near our roads. Get yourself a full BEV and adapt accordingly.

That doesn't in any way answer the OPs question, so I think you're in the wrong thread - try posting over here: End of PHEVs predicted?

@Njh11 - you may notice that there can be significant hostility towards PHEVs in this community. If you choose to frequent these boards regularly, be prepared to be treated as a second class citizen.

 

[SHL-Kelso]

The OP should, in my opinion, be considering a full BEV or full ICE. PHEV is just soothing consciences. If they want something large with some decent range, then there are a few options out there already. Not necessarily cheap but that doesn't seem to bother the OP anyway.

Why would you want to drive more than 2-3 hours with kids in the back without stopping anyway? With a decent BEV, on a long journey, you should be able to take a break from driving, let your passengers stretch their legs and get a bite to eat and/or a coffee. Whilst you are doing that for 20 - 25 minutes, you could top up the car and carry on.

As for PHEV owners being treated as second class citizens, that is an insult to second class citizens.

Here we go again... 🥱

Before cluttering up this OPs thread with more off-topic PHEV bashing please move over to the other thread instead.

 

[cdlb]

The OP should, in my opinion, be considering a full BEV or full ICE. PHEV is just soothing consciences. If they want something large with some decent range, then there are a few options out there already. Not necessarily cheap but that doesn't seem to bother the OP anyway.

Why would you want to drive more than 2-3 hours with kids in the back without stopping anyway? With a decent BEV, on a long journey, you should be able to take a break from driving, let your passengers stretch their legs and get a bite to eat and/or a coffee. Whilst you are doing that for 20 - 25 minutes, you could top up the car and carry on.

As for PHEV owners being treated as second class citizens, that is an insult to second class citizens.

Again, I think you're in the wrong thread: End of PHEVs predicted?

 

[Mrklaw]

If your day to day driving is relatively short distances that a phev can handle on electric mode it can be a great choice to offset difficulty with longer trips

personally if you only do longer trips a few times a year, I’d encourage looking at BEV because they can be easy to live with and work with charging en route. But if you travel long distances regularly, that ‘management overhead’ may be something you want to avoid and that’s where PHEVs help

 

[mikegs]

Again, I think you're in the wrong thread: End of PHEVs predicted?

I don't think members of the Taliban/IS branch of EVangelism care about minor details like that.

 

[cdlb]

I don't think members of the Taliban/IS branch of EVangelism care about minor details like that.

Thankfully it's very easy to dismiss the opinions of the militant. Probably just as easy as it is to dismiss the opinions of the lower class citizens of Speak EV...

 

[farmergiles]

Nothing wrong with the OP's choice if he likes the test drive.
But as he is only doing the long journeys a few times a year, a cheaper BEV would probaably have lower running costs, assuming home charging. With a hire car used for the long journeys.

A friend has just took delivery of his Clio HEV after a month wait and loves it. Around town pure battery mode operates.