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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
In the process of changing car as I鈥檝e managed to persuaded the Wife to have mine and we part ex hers in place of a new one for me馃榿. Anyway, I鈥檓 torn between a BEV or a Plug in Hybrid so decided to post my normal usage and go from there.

Realistically, I rarely drive more than 20 mile a day as I鈥檓 retired and spend most days on the golf course three miles away. During the better months I鈥檒l usually visit a different golf course each week and they can vary between 20 and 60 miles from my home. Also, my Son lives 10 miles away, so it鈥檚 normally a visit at the Weekend. Lastly though, my wife is from Cambridge and we presently live in the North East so a 460 mile round trip once or twice a year, but probably increasing due to the in laws not getting any younger. I鈥檝e had both a 24kw and 30kw Leaf in the past, but never ventured past there actual ranges to require a recharge on route馃槀.

My logic is telling me a plug in Hybrid with a range of 30 miles would be perfect and I have a 20k budget so it has to be used. Presently a 2017 Ionic around 拢17.5k is looking good, but for another 拢3.5k I could get a nearly new MG5, decisions, decisions馃し
 

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GOLF GTE PHEV
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PHEV definitely, then you won't have any hassle and anxiety with the public charging networks.

My Golf GTE does 15-24 on battery so costs 30p/day in power and no petrol.

On medium journeys using a combination of battery and petrol the mpg will be around 60-80.

On the ong journeys that I've done (500mile round trip) it does 50mpg and that's driving at the speed limits but I can drive at any speed, wherever I want and not have to keep one eye on the range and location of chargers.

If you are interested in a Golf GTE please PM me (I'm near Alnwick) Might be too small for your clubs!
 

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My Ioniq 28kWh keeps going well, used to do Bham to Darlington regularly (2 weekly), recharges fine. MG even better range. Wouldn't buy the complexity of both ICE/EV that a PHEV presents. Can you recharge with granny lead in Cambridge?
 

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2020 VW ID3 Life 58kWh
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Normally I'd say BEV every time but based on your usage a PHEV might be the better option also the M1 is a bit of a nightmare charging wise at the moment. I'm sure it will improve but the last time we tried it out there was a lot of broken chargers and places with just 1 charger.

Maybe the money you save getting a PHEV instead of a BEV you could use to pay for train tickets to Cambridge! 馃槣
 

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GOLF GTE PHEV
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Normally I'd say BEV every time but based on your usage a PHEV might be the better option also the M1 is a bit of a nightmare charging wise at the moment. I'm sure it will improve but the last time we tried it out there was a lot of broken chargers and places with just 1 charger.

Maybe the money you save getting a PHEV instead of a BEV you could use to pay for train tickets to Cambridge! 馃槣
A 460 mile round trip in a PHEV that does 46mpg is 10gals or 拢70 which is probably much less than two return train tickets.
 

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Kia E Niro 4
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I wouldn't bother with a PHEV with 60 mile trips to other golf courses a BEV would manage that easilly and for the long distance trips a couple of charges or maybe even charge on arrival would do it. The MG range offer good value and range. I switched from a Mercedes C class to an e-Niro, less range anxiety more bladder anxiety being the determining factor, and so much cheaper to run.
 

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Think a lot depends on your willingness to use public charging on those long distance trips and that a 拢20k budget will limit your choice of long range EVs to just a few models. Bit of a tricky time to buy any car at the moment with used prices where they are.

Few suggestions on PHEVs to consider if you go down that route:
Kia Optima - nice big boot, the estate version has a battery with more capacity than the saloon. Fully Charged did a review of it, link below.
Kia Niro.
BMW 330e - lots of these around, presumably because they were popular as fleet cars, apparently pretty quick but the electric range and fuel efficiency isn't great.
Toyota Prius Prime / Plug-in - very good hybrid efficiency because it started as a true hybrid, probably the best PHEV for mpg, reasonable electric range upto 35 miles in good conditions and decent level of equipment and a heat-pump, but very small boot and the pre-2020 ones had 4 seats, with only 2 in the back.

Fully Charged review of Kia Optima
 

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PHEV definitely, then you won't have any hassle and anxiety with the public charging networks.

My Golf GTE does 15-24 on battery so costs 30p/day in power and no petrol.


Near Alnwick based too and just recently converted from PHEV to BEV. I ran a diesel PHEV for 5 years and similar range 16 to 25 miles in electric. Great for local travel but I also needed a car capable of longer range for work travel down south. The PHEV did well averaging 55mpg peon those sort of trips. With less travel since COVID longer journeys are few and far between. When sold the overall average consumption for the car over it lifetime was just shy of 100mpg if that is meaningful.
Lots of extra weight to carry around and I guess the drivetrain is more complex but I only had one difficulty due to water ingress. PHEV worked for me but very happy to have made the shift although I have yet to use the BEV on a longish trip
 

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Aren鈥檛 we missing something here? For your normal journeys a BEV is perfect, the only problem is the trip to your wife鈥檚 parents. However, you also have what will be your wife鈥檚 car, which used to be your car - is that the 30kw Leaf? How often is that going to be used, and is it going to be used at the same time as what will be your car?

I鈥檓 thinking that you need two cars, but not a 鈥渉is鈥 and 鈥渉ers鈥. Assuming the current one is a Leaf 30, then whoever is going for a short enough journey takes it. So then you need a car capable of doing the long journeys and for shorter journeys when the other car is in use, which logically has to be a PHEV.
 

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This article:
Valais, Switzerland pulls plug on hybrid incentives, should the rest of the world follow? (electrek.co)
Shows that when a PHEV runs in battery charging mode its emissions go "off the charts" (to quote the article). I've never driven a PHEV, but can someone who has tell me if charging the battery while the engine is running is something that can be switched on and off by the driver?

In testing conducted by by Emissions Analytics, on a fully charged battery, a BMW X5, Volvo XC60 and Mitsubishi Outlander emitted 28鈥89% more CO2 than advertised. On an empty battery, they emitted 300鈥800% more than official values. When driven in battery-charging mode, which could become more common as motorists charge up ahead of using electric mode in low-emissions zones, the PHEVs emitted up to 12 times more CO2 than their official ratings.
 

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maybe think of it slightly differently - you're responsible for an infinitesimally small contribution to the human races short term problems, and should not feel obligated to put yourself into financial problems by trying to do the right thing by buying a full BEV, which to get a nice one will cost you. So look at your available money, and then buy the car that will give you the greatest buzz over the longest time. If it happens to be a BEV, then great, but there is an even greater selection of PHEVs available right now, all of which will reduce your emissions (ooh er) to zero really anyway. Are you buying a car, or a life style ?
 

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you're responsible for an infinitesimally small contribution to the human races short term problems, and should not feel obligated to put yourself into financial problems by trying to do the right thing by buying a full BEV, which to get a nice one will cost you.
Please don鈥檛 take this personally, it鈥檚 just that you happened to post it, but it鈥檚 thinking like this that has got us into this difficult position and won鈥檛 help get us out of it will it?

If we always do what we鈥檝e always done, then we鈥檒l always get what we always got. Or something.

It鈥檚 millions of people doing small things that will make a difference.

Perhaps buying a PHEV or BEV isn鈥檛 the right option at all?

That said, the A1 is getting pretty well sorted for chargers nowadays, so a BEV would work, but the 20k budget in the current climate limits choice somewhat.

I鈥檓 not sure that choosing a car based on a couple of infrequent long trips a year is the best thinking personally, but if you are then a PHEV would be more affordable and do the job.

Downsides would be increased maintenance costs, and the running of a more complex drivetrain. My old GTE was a faithful companion, but it needed on the button maintenance that for me was frequent and expensive.
 

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eNiro 4, Zoe 135 GT RC
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IMHO

BEV

MG5 no issue getting clubs in boot

As a retired person, spend the money鈥..and save on fuel everytime you use it
 

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Downsides would be increased maintenance costs, and the running of a more complex drivetrain. My old GTE was a faithful companion, but it needed on the button maintenance that for me was frequent and expensive.
This is what would put me off. I had a GTE for several years as a company car. I liked it, but was very glad I wasn鈥檛 responsible for maintaining it - and would be more nervous if it was older or higher mileage. PHEVs are about as mechanically complex as cars are ever going to get.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks for the great reply鈥檚, My 20k budget was more for justification as my annual mileage is pretty low (6k). Both our present cars are small engined (1.0 turbo) petrols. Using a little man鈥檚 maths I may be increasing my budget and try to justify the LR MG5 to the wife for the longer visits馃榿
 

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This article:
I've never driven a PHEV, but can someone who has tell me if charging the battery while the engine is running is something that can be switched on and off by the driver?
On the 330e, and I'm sure other PHEVs are similar, the battery will run down to about 10% - it will then drive in Hybrid mode ( like our original Prius ), electric will be used for low speed, low power then the ICE will fire up above this demand to power the car and a little of this power is used to top up the battery to around 10% - when approaching the destination the HV battery is allowed to drop towards zero as the car is expecting a plug in charge.

It never tries to 'fill' the HV battery using the engine - although there is a driver selected mode that tries to do that called 'save'.
 

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Please don鈥檛 take this personally, it鈥檚 just that you happened to post it, but it鈥檚 thinking like this that has got us into this difficult position and won鈥檛 help get us out of it will it?
Unfortunately, and don't take this personally, it's that type of thinking that shows just how succesfull brainwashing can be - the people who should be made to feel guilty are the bustards at the top of the industries that are killing our climate - not the poor public at the bottom of the tree who are currently everyones scapegoat - I've gone full BEV, and I hope to god I'm now happy with my choice, but christ it's cost me a hell of a lot of our small amount of savings, and put us in debt - and TBH, I'm not happy with the fact that I seem to have been forced to go this way, whilst other less susceptible peeps have carried on regardless.
 

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Downsides would be increased maintenance costs, and the running of a more complex drivetrain. My old GTE was a faithful companion, but it needed on the button maintenance that for me was frequent and expensive.
Gets worse with age, BEVs are getting a good life expectancy, certainly with battery.

 

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Lastly though, my wife is from Cambridge and we presently live in the North East so a 460 mile round trip once or twice a year,
You do a single trip twice a year that will present any challenge to you in terms of using public charging, and the rest of the time you can happily pootle around without a care in the world.

230 miles each way means one longer stop or two shorter stops, for me 230 miles would be 4 hours at least, but given the UK roads at least 5 hours, so that would be a two stopper just for the toilet, a leg stretch and maybe a snack. I assume your in-laws would let you charge the car on their drive if they have one using an 3-pin EVSE? if so then you are leaving on 100% again and the same on the way home. I've based the calculation on the Ioniq you mentioned, the MG5 might actually fare a bit better.
 

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Unfortunately, and don't take this personally, it's that type of thinking that shows just how succesfull brainwashing can be - the people who should be made to feel guilty are the bustards at the top of the industries that are killing our climate - not the poor public at the bottom of the tree who are currently everyones scapegoat - I've gone full BEV, and I hope to god I'm now happy with my choice, but christ it's cost me a hell of a lot of our small amount of savings, and put us in debt - and TBH, I'm not happy with the fact that I seem to have been forced to go this way, whilst other less susceptible peeps have carried on regardless.
Not sure that my polite observation deserved an accusation of being brainwashed, but it鈥檚 easier to go into denial than actually change things isn鈥檛 it?

It wasn鈥檛 a specific point about EVs either, it鈥檚 a wider thing. If nobody changes, nothing changes does it.
 
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