Speak EV - Electric Car Forums banner
21 - 40 of 45 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
586 Posts
I would go full BEV. Your long trip is only 230 miles one way (you wouldn't go there and back in a day, would you?), so with something like a MG5 LR you'll probably need to public charge once, briefly, en route. There are some EVs that would comfortably get you there without charging but they are out of budget.

That said, you are relying on public charging to some extent, which is a risk. Probably a manageable one but it depends.

I'm in a similar boat to you. I worked out the longest trips I do in a day are just under 200 miles. I have a Leaf 62 as my only car. It can do about that but to be comfortable I still charge on those trips. Not been a problem so far -- in fact, I need so little juice that a type 2 charge whilst stopped for lunch is fine -- don't even really need a rapid. I would say I have a middling attitude to risk -- some people are more risk averse, some love adventure more.

Kind regards
- Garry
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
506 Posts
BEV - all your regular travel will be totally fine, with the benefits of a nice warmed up car before you leave. The longer trip would be doable in something like an MG5 (with space for golf clubs etc) with limited stops and thats something you’d learn quickly which ones work for you along the route. You’d also have fallback options with your wife’s car presumably if you felt it wasn’t doable - but it should be
 

·
Registered
2020 VW ID3 Life 58kWh
Joined
·
575 Posts
Thanks for the great reply’s, My 20k budget was more for justification as my annual mileage is pretty low (6k). Both our present cars are small engined (1.0 turbo) petrols. Using a little man’s maths I may be increasing my budget and try to justify the LR MG5 to the wife for the longer visits😁
If you can stretch to a 250 mile range EV like the 5LR then I think that changes things you'd only need a small top up on longer journeys so if worst case you had to use a type 2 charger it wouldn't be that much of an issue.

Before I got an EV I thought something with 160-200 miles would be plenty now I've used the charging network I know you need an extra few miles to cope with the unexpected!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
189 Posts
This article:
Valais, Switzerland pulls plug on hybrid incentives, should the rest of the world follow? (electrek.co)
Shows that when a PHEV runs in battery charging mode its emissions go "off the charts" (to quote the article). I've never driven a PHEV, but can someone who has tell me if charging the battery while the engine is running is something that can be switched on and off by the driver?
In my PHEV when the battery was depleted you had 2 choices, either run it using ICE or press a button to charge the battery using the ICE. The second choice was not fuel efficient and only charged the battery to 50% but you had the option
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
85 Posts
Unfortunately, and don't take this personally, it's that type of thinking that shows just how succesfull brainwashing can be - the people who should be made to feel guilty are the bustards at the top of the industries that are killing our climate - not the poor public at the bottom of the tree who are currently everyones scapegoat - I've gone full BEV, and I hope to god I'm now happy with my choice, but christ it's cost me a hell of a lot of our small amount of savings, and put us in debt - and TBH, I'm not happy with the fact that I seem to have been forced to go this way, whilst other less susceptible peeps have carried on regardless.
Totally agree, if people are trying make little differences to their usage then so much the better. At the start of last week we had a Euro6 Diesel and PHEV in our ownership, now (mainly due to high residuals in the diesel and a fault with the PHEV allowing us to reject the car) we are heading firmly towards BEVs - purely because the stars aligned.

No-one should be made to feel guilty about coming to HEV or PHEV if that suits their budget and needs - my wife near came a cropper today with her loan BEV due to a charger being out of service so there are still challenges.

To the OP, from our experience PHEVs fit a solid need but you have to make sure whether you are likely to get 30 miles of electric range without the engine coming on. That's not a reason not to buy a PHEV as it will save money and be greener, it's simply that it may not be the experience you expect (especially in winter).
 

·
Registered
GOLF GTE PHEV
Joined
·
4,604 Posts
I've been looking around at various PHEVs for around £15k and there are some decent ones on Autotrader.

From massive Outlanders, (too slow for me to be honest)

The BMW 330e, (252-289bhp so v. quick) or

BMW XE225 (I like the sound of these because the motor drives the rear wheels and the 3cyl 1.5 turbo petrol the front, and both when you want max power (224bhp)

The Op can get a decent PHEV for his 20k budget and in a few years time, when the public charging network is fit for purpose, he can always then move onto a BEV.

For milder performance there a few Ioniqs and Niro PHEVs about.

In the meantime I think I'll stick with my Golf, it's too good a drive to part with.
 

·
Registered
GOLF GTE PHEV
Joined
·
4,604 Posts
This article:
Valais, Switzerland pulls plug on hybrid incentives, should the rest of the world follow? (electrek.co)
Shows that when a PHEV runs in battery charging mode its emissions go "off the charts" (to quote the article). I've never driven a PHEV, but can someone who has tell me if charging the battery while the engine is running is something that can be switched on and off by the driver?

In testing conducted by by Emissions Analytics, on a fully charged battery, a BMW X5, Volvo XC60 and Mitsubishi Outlander emitted 28–89% more CO2 than advertised. On an empty battery, they emitted 300–800% more than official values. When driven in battery-charging mode, which could become more common as motorists charge up ahead of using electric mode in low-emissions zones, the PHEVs emitted up to 12 times more CO2 than their official ratings.
On the GTE, there are 5 modes:-

E = pure electric good for 15-20 miles.

Hybrid when battery is used until low or more power is wanted than it can supply when the engine starts. Usually gives bests mpg on a long run.

Battery hold, when both are used but the engine will be run to keep the battery at its current SOC. This can be useful if you are approaching a built up area and want to switch to E mode.

Battery charge, which runs the engine to charge the battery and propel the car and is the least efficient. I might only use it briefly to put a few miles on the battery range so max performance is available.

GTE (aka Sport mode) which uses motor and engine simultaneously for max performance, provided the battery has a few miles left. Also reduces steering assistance and sharpens the throttle response.

Surplus torque goes into charging the battery, so over a decent distance, you can end up with 50% or more battery range. MPG suffer compared to Hybrid mode but the car is a lot more fun.

In all modes, the battery is used at low speeds and light loads even if the range is zero, but a soon as you accelerate the engine fires up. (I.e you cannot drive purely on petrol power)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,924 Posts
I can't really see the downside of getting a BEV if you will be running it alongside your old ICE. In winter, you may decide to take the ICE on the long journey, but in a 200 mile BEV a short stop after 2 or 3 hours to take a (recommended) break and top up a bit is all that is needed, if you can charge overnight at destination.

Due to their complexity, PHEVs are not very popular on the used market when they get old, so depreciation will definitely be higher than a BEV and servicing costs will be too. There is also more to go wrong, as a member found recently when their turbo blew up. Bear in mind that recent PHEVs pay road tax too - with a tiny discount.

Do also be careful with claimed range of PHEV. We have had many people join here over the years saying "why does my BMW only do 15 miles on electric". Often PHEV owners will either exaggerate or cherry pick their best, warm weather results. The worse PHEV we had was the Mercedes C class - pathetic EV range and barely enough room for OH to get her golf clubs in! The Ampera was obviously our best ;)

Anyway, good luck with whatever you decide.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,919 Posts
Not sure that my polite observation deserved an accusation of being brainwashed, but it’s easier to go into denial than actually change things isn’t it?

It wasn’t a specific point about EVs either, it’s a wider thing. If nobody changes, nothing changes does it.
I wasn't going to reply, but I cant help wondering what you think I'm denying - I've gone into debt to achieve what you think everyone should, but I'm saying that an individual shouldn't be pressurised into making that same decision when ultimately, there are others whose participation will help far more then either mine, or theirs ! Apart from that I agree, even though I do feel as I said, that a bit of me was sort of brain washed into thinking it.
 

·
Premium Member
VW ID.3 1st Edition & Tesla M3 LR
Joined
·
8,370 Posts
I wasn't going to reply, but I cant help wondering what you think I'm denying - I've gone into debt to achieve what you think everyone should, but I'm saying that an individual shouldn't be pressurised into making that same decision when ultimately, there are others whose participation will help far more then either mine, or theirs ! Apart from that I agree, even though I do feel as I said, that a bit of me was sort of brain washed into thinking it.
Denying that if everybody changed a little, that collectively it wouldn’t mean a lot?

For the record, I’ve never said that people should go out and buy an electric car before anything else, and you shouldn’t go into debt especially for one either, unless you’d also be going into debt for a regular car.

Heck, I even said that they might be better off with a PHEV or no second car at all.

As I said, I was making an observation about something I see written a lot, that ‘an individual can’t achieve much on their own, so what’s the point’. That just leads to inaction and nothing at all changing.

You should do things because you want to do them, not because a bloke on the internet said you should. 👍
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,919 Posts
in that case, why highlight my post, because I never said that did I ? I was just a bloke on the internet saying that someone with a small budget for an EV, and an even smaller requirement for one, shouldn't feel that he had to have one - now if he wants one, thats different. So strangely, I think we agree, it's just that somehow your reply seemed to be saying I was some sort of climate change denier / anti - EVer which I'm most definitely not. Anyway, lets leave it and not spoil the thread for the OP !!
 

·
Premium Member
VW ID.3 1st Edition & Tesla M3 LR
Joined
·
8,370 Posts
in that case, why highlight my post, because I never said that did I ? I was just a bloke on the internet saying that someone with a small budget for an EV, and an even smaller requirement for one, shouldn't feel that he had to have one - now if he wants one, thats different. So strangely, I think we agree, it's just that somehow your reply seemed to be saying I was some sort of climate change denier / anti - EVer which I'm most definitely not. Anyway, lets leave it and not spoil the thread for the OP !!
Hopefully nobody thinks it’s a thread spoiled, and I was just paraphrasing this part;

you're responsible for an infinitesimally small contribution to the human races short term problems, and should not feel obligated to put yourself into financial problems by trying to do the right thing by buying a full BEV,
I agree totally that people shouldn’t be putting themselves in financial problems just to buy a BEV, I was responding (politely and non personally!) to the point you raised about how individuals are contributing only a tiny bit to the worlds climate/pollution problems.

It’s that tiny contribution that collectively has put us in a pickle though isn’t it, so hopefully collectively we can help reverse it.

Not by only buying a BEV though, and nobody should think that’s an answer to the worlds problems either.

It’s an important point you raised though, and fair play, despite this Being SpeakEV the automatic answer to every car question shouldn’t be ‘a BEV’. 🙂👍
 

·
Registered
Blue Etron 2019, 2014 Nissan Leaf
Joined
·
419 Posts
In the process of changing car as I’ve managed to persuaded the Wife to have mine and we part ex hers in place of a new one for me😁. Anyway, I’m torn between a BEV or a Plug in Hybrid so decided to post my normal usage and go from there.

Realistically, I rarely drive more than 20 mile a day as I’m retired and spend most days on the golf course three miles away. During the better months I’ll usually visit a different golf course each week and they can vary between 20 and 60 miles from my home. Also, my Son lives 10 miles away, so it’s normally a visit at the Weekend. Lastly though, my wife is from Cambridge and we presently live in the North East so a 460 mile round trip once or twice a year, but probably increasing due to the in laws not getting any younger. I’ve had both a 24kw and 30kw Leaf in the past, but never ventured past there actual ranges to require a recharge on route😂.

My logic is telling me a plug in Hybrid with a range of 30 miles would be perfect and I have a 20k budget so it has to be used. Presently a 2017 Ionic around £17.5k is looking good, but for another £3.5k I could get a nearly new MG5, decisions, decisions🤷
I'm usually a BEV guy, but I'm going to suggest a PHEV.

460 miles round trip with destination charging would be non-stop for car reasons with some of the higher range BEVs, so no recharge on route needed. Or is this a day trip, no overnight? Would need enough time at destination to recharge.

However I doubt you would find such a BEV used in your budget.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bydandie

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,193 Posts
I'd go for BEV. Your usage is not unlike mine, lots of local stuff that any EV can do easily, plus I do regular 160 mile trips to ageing mum-in-law. As you say, these trips tend to get more frequent! I went for Ioniq 38 as this will do that range in winter non-stop with no problem. As it's extreme;ly aerodynamic, it has a better range than the Kona 39 kWh.
Looking on AT,
Kia Niro 39 or 64 kWh seem to be £29k upwards,
Hyundai Kona 64 seems to be £23K upwards (that yellow one may be a bargain, is it cheap 'coz yellow's unpopular?)
Hyunda Ioniq 28 kWh are £17 upwards,
Hyundai Ioniq 38 are £23k upwards.
MG ZS are £17k upwards.

If my trip had been say 200 miles regularly, I might have got the 28 kWh Ioniq, as the 38 is very slow charging on a Rapid (47 kW max), but the 28 is very fast! (67 kW ish). Owners of the 28s are getting 160 miles in summer no probs, 120 in winter, so you could do your 230 mile trip with a single stop, but probably better 2 short stops. Here's the charging curve:
Rectangle Slope Font Parallel Plot

Ignore the yellow (38 kWh) curve for the moment. Given a 100 kW Rapid, the 28 should charge at between 60 & 67 kW all the way to 75% SOC. Assuming your range is 120 miles=100%SOC, you'll need another 28 kWh topup on the trip, so that's a total of 30 mins on Rapids during the trip. Not very arduous tbh.

If you got the 38m you'ld have 160 miles for 100% SOC in winter comfortably, so you'ld need another 70 miles = 15 kWh single topup. In winter I see 33 kW if it's 4C outside, so call it 30 mins at a Rapid. So for your trip, the 2 cars are very similar in journey times! Bang for your buck, the 28's a winner in my book.

The 28 is air-cooled (done properly!) so no expensive fluid change at 4 year services. I'm paying £11.28 monthly on my dealer-service plan, I expect the 28's similar price. The battery in 28 appears to be very long lasting, we aren't hearing any degradation horror stories like the early Leafs had. The boot's good imho, should take a set of clubs, but it's years since I played! You get a decent 5-year wty.

Drawbacks? 12V battery is fragile, so treat with care & always have car fully-on when doors are open, radio is on etc. Door handle plastic has been known to snap, again be gentle! This car is a rather unknown gem imho, manages to do with 28 kWh what other makes need 40+ to achieve.

MG ZS should also be checked out, but do check the winter range on motorways etc. Likely to take a much bigger range-hit than Ioniq does, when doing 60+ for long stretches, as it's SUV brick-shaped.
 

·
Registered
ID3
Joined
·
170 Posts
Im not going to wade in on the hybrid vs bev debate, but thought I’d share my experiences with Cambridge in a bev recently. Start of December we did Bristol to Cambridge for a short trip as well as a day out to Colchester zoo, so total similar mileage to your trip. Parking was so awful in central Cambridge we just dumped the car in the park and ride on the last day and returned to a full battery and warm car for the return leg. This Worked really well for us. Return leg was 170 miles and we did this with one stop but didn’t bother to charge. If the locations work for you it’s very manageable. Think it was trumpington we parked at.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
282 Posts
I loved my Golf GTE and got a long term average of over 270 mpg because of frequent charging. Wouldn't want to own one longer than 3 years (servicing then gets ridiculous for DSG and cambelt) and I worry re reliability of 2 drivetrains.
 

·
Registered
GOLF GTE PHEV
Joined
·
4,604 Posts
I loved my Golf GTE and got a long term average of over 270 mpg because of frequent charging. Wouldn't want to own one longer than 3 years (servicing then gets ridiculous for DSG and cambelt) and I worry re reliability of 2 drivetrains.
I plan on doing the DSG oil change myself and also the brake fluid and coolant, probably the cambelt too, mainly because I don't trust a VW dealer to do it properly if at all + the satisfaction of just doing it. Only the motor coolant would be a dealer job but I don't think it needs changing. (the filler cap has a wire seal)

None of the above are particularly difficult and there are numerous Youtube videos to consult.
But not to be taken as gospel as the procedures vary depending on the model and year, eg the DSG oil filter is not to be changed unless metal particles or coolant are found in the oil - mainly because its not accessible without dropping the engine/transmission a few inches. If metal or coolant is found then you'd need a new 'box anyway!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
316 Posts
Due to their complexity, PHEVs are not very popular on the used market when they get old, so depreciation will definitely be higher than a BEV and servicing costs will be too. There is also more to go wrong, as a member found recently when their turbo blew up. Bear in mind that recent PHEVs pay road tax too - with a tiny discount.
We bought our 330e with 20K miles at just over 2 years old for 16K from a car supermarket, about 50% depreciation from new.
Now at 5 years old with 40K, dealers are selling similar cars on autotrader for 17-19K so effectively we have had no depreciation for the last 3 years.

Crazy.

But looking forward, in 5 years time, at 10 years old, if our car is worth say 3K, then it will cost us £200 per month in depreciation plus the risk of higher repair bills - so almost worth considering changing now to a BEV lease. I'll also save £60 a month running costs in no petrol, and more efficient EV running.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
290 Posts
In the process of changing car as I’ve managed to persuaded the Wife to have mine and we part ex hers in place of a new one for me😁. Anyway, I’m torn between a BEV or a Plug in Hybrid so decided to post my normal usage and go from there.

Realistically, I rarely drive more than 20 mile a day as I’m retired and spend most days on the golf course three miles away. During the better months I’ll usually visit a different golf course each week and they can vary between 20 and 60 miles from my home. Also, my Son lives 10 miles away, so it’s normally a visit at the Weekend. Lastly though, my wife is from Cambridge and we presently live in the North East so a 460 mile round trip once or twice a year, but probably increasing due to the in laws not getting any younger. I’ve had both a 24kw and 30kw Leaf in the past, but never ventured past there actual ranges to require a recharge on route😂.

My logic is telling me a plug in Hybrid with a range of 30 miles would be perfect and I have a 20k budget so it has to be used. Presently a 2017 Ionic around £17.5k is looking good, but for another £3.5k I could get a nearly new MG5, decisions, decisions🤷
If you decide to go for a PHEV, I'd consider Ampera. Fantastic car, with brilliant ev range (I easily get 40-50 miles on a charge). Even now, after all these years, no other PHEV comes anywhere close to the range of Ampera.
And it's a fantastic car, very spacious, very comfortable, high quality build, with everything you'll need (heated seats, you can pre-con the car in winter/summer ;) , big boot, touch-controlled central console, even a dvd player ;)).
Even when doing a long journey ( I did MK, Bucks->Sunderland recently - 230miles each way) I still got an average of 4.5 lires/100km (60miles), which I think is very good for such a big and heavy car.
 

·
Registered
GOLF GTE PHEV
Joined
·
4,604 Posts
If you decide to go for a PHEV, I'd consider Ampera. Fantastic car, with brilliant ev range (I easily get 40-50 miles on a charge). Even now, after all these years, no other PHEV comes anywhere close to the range of Ampera.
And it's a fantastic car, very spacious, very comfortable, high quality build, with everything you'll need (heated seats, you can pre-con the car in winter/summer ;) , big boot, touch-controlled central console, even a dvd player ;)).
Even when doing a long journey ( I did MK, Bucks->Sunderland recently - 230miles each way) I still got an average of 4.5 lires/100km (60miles), which I think is very good for such a big and heavy car.
I seriously considered an Ampera but couldn't find one close enough to justify travelling to view. I would never buy one online. The Chevvy Volt is an alternative with a better spec i think.

However the GTE works for me, having enough battery range for my daily needs and giving 50mpg on a long run, as well as having the performance and handling I like. I expect the mpg to improve in warmer weather as will the battery range.
 
21 - 40 of 45 Posts
Top