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I agree completely with Eric's comments in the early part of the interview, his mission is inspiring. I think workplace and destination charging will be the great enabler as EV range increases. Rapid charging is essential but our obsession with it is a based on the outdated fuel station model we've all grown up with. It will become less relevant if we can get destination charging sorted.

High frequency demand management is interesting and I'd certainly be willing to sign up for it but how relevant will it be in the future? My kids watch almost no TV. In 10 years time, they won't be turning the kettle on during the ad break.

Low frequency demand management may be needed in the future but with the current reliability of apps and reliance on needing a charge, it's not something I'd personally be keen to sign up for.

The goal of simplifying charging is admirable and needed. I'm not convinced that swapping one PITA (multiple rfid cards) for another (multiple phone apps) is the answer. I just want to turn up at a charge point, pay for it in the same way I pay for nearly everything else in my life (debit or credit card, Android or Apple pay) No membership, no log in or sign up. And really, I'd like to be charged by the kWh, it means something to me in terms of mileage and value for money. On the other hand, neither of us want high power chargers being hogged by cars charging at a low rate for ever, hmmm...
 

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I think workplace and destination charging will be the great enabler as EV range increases. Rapid charging is essential but our obsession with it is a based on the outdated fuel station model we've all grown up with. It will become less relevant if we can get destination charging sorted.
The goal of simplifying charging is admirable and needed. I'm not convinced that swapping one PITA (multiple rfid cards) for another (multiple phone apps) is the answer. I just want to turn up at a charge point, pay for it in the same way I pay for nearly everything else in my life (debit or credit card, Android or Apple pay) No membership, no log in or sign up. And really, I'd like to be charged by the kWh, it means something to me in terms of mileage and value for money. On the other hand, neither of us want high power chargers being hogged by cars charging at a low rate for ever, hmmm...
A mix of chargers is needed for sure. Rapids should be hub based on major routes to enable distance travel. 7kWh chargers are best placed in Carparks, Either destination private areas, work parking, or public dedicated parking places.

Personally I would set aside top floors of multi-storey car parks with all bays fitted with chargers. With an additional pay barrier to gain access to that upper area. Cars would pay the normal parking tariff for the entire building, and then an additional tariff to access that upper charging facility floor. Once in there they can simply plug in without any further access card/app just as they would do at home.

That way they would be controlled over time by the main Carpark fees, and pay for the electricity taken during that stay when they exit the charging floor back to the normal Carpark area. As both the parking and charging areas would have to be time based the charge fee would be easily based on the maximum kWhs that any one socket could provide in that time. Cars with a lower charge rate than 6.6 would lose out but not by much in return for that convenience. Another benefit would be that those chargers would never be ICE'd unless someone without a plug was prepared to pay top dollar to park in the most unattractive area in that building.
 

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The goal of simplifying charging is admirable and needed. I'm not convinced that swapping one PITA (multiple rfid cards) for another (multiple phone apps) is the answer. I just want to turn up at a charge point, pay for it in the same way I pay for nearly everything else in my life (debit or credit card, Android or Apple pay) No membership, no log in or sign up. And really, I'd like to be charged by the kWh, it means something to me in terms of mileage and value for money. On the other hand, neither of us want high power chargers being hogged by cars charging at a low rate for ever, hmmm...
I think the swerve to apps is only an intelligent beginning. Once it's app-based then anything is possible, like transfer pricing so that any app can control any charge point and we just use the one we like best. Smart phones are being used now to do contactless payment, so people soon won't be carrying debit cards.

In addition, I liked the way that Podpoint had clearly learned from early cockups (when voodoo was required to get a charger to start) and stripped out the over-engineering. Well done them!
 

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He strikes me as a very rational and sensible person. Apart from insisting everyone would pay by app. I just want to plug the car in. Let the car argue about payment or have ONE card. Charge by text would be fine too. That wouldn't exclude people without fancy mobile phones or their phone breaks/goes flat/gets stolen. If I'm in a normal petrol car I can always buy fuel with a debit card or cash.

Even with better destination charging there are so many destinations I still can't get at because they're more than a full charge away or I'd want to be there less time than I need to charge back up again. Plus if there aren't adequate chargers you can't really wait 3 hours to start a charge that will take another few hours. Which is why you will always need rapids dotted about.

The 200 mile £20k price point is spot on about mass adoption.
 

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I agree completely with Eric's comments in the early part of the interview, his mission is inspiring. I think workplace and destination charging will be the great enabler as EV range increases. Rapid charging is essential but our obsession with it is a based on the outdated fuel station model we've all grown up with. It will become less relevant if we can get destination charging sorted.

High frequency demand management is interesting and I'd certainly be willing to sign up for it but how relevant will it be in the future? My kids watch almost no TV. In 10 years time, they won't be turning the kettle on during the ad break.

Low frequency demand management may be needed in the future but with the current reliability of apps and reliance on needing a charge, it's not something I'd personally be keen to sign up for.

The goal of simplifying charging is admirable and needed. I'm not convinced that swapping one PITA (multiple rfid cards) for another (multiple phone apps) is the answer. I just want to turn up at a charge point, pay for it in the same way I pay for nearly everything else in my life (debit or credit card, Android or Apple pay) No membership, no log in or sign up. And really, I'd like to be charged by the kWh, it means something to me in terms of mileage and value for money. On the other hand, neither of us want high power chargers being hogged by cars charging at a low rate for ever, hmmm...
I disagree - higher range cars will still need rapid charging but covering car parks with lots of slow chargers will be a pointless and expensive waste of time. Destination chargers will only be useful where people can charge overnight I.e. At home or at hotels. People aren't going to want to pay to use slow destination chargers at their local supermarkets or dentist once most EVs exceed 200 miles range but will still need rapid chargers for longer distance trips. City rapid charge hubs could also serve those without home charging but street chargers for them would be better.
 

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Today's DC rapid that's 50kw is tomorrow's slow destination charger when normal charge speed is 100-200kw.

7kw isn't too bad. It's 20 miles per hour for many cars so it isn't completely useless at the moment but in the future it might be less useful. Making the 7kw posts 22kw but reducing the speed until the back end can cope might be a good intermediate solution.
 

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Orrery, it won't happen this week but your suggestion is the most practical so far; difficult to fiddle, always in/on the car, for fleet vehicles there's no probability of error and no long explanation how to charge the car.
 

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I disagree - higher range cars will still need rapid charging but covering car parks with lots of slow chargers will be a pointless and expensive waste of time. Destination chargers will only be useful where people can charge overnight I.e. At home or at hotels. People aren't going to want to pay to use slow destination chargers at their local supermarkets or dentist once most EVs exceed 200 miles range but will still need rapid chargers for longer distance trips. City rapid charge hubs could also serve those without home charging but street chargers for them would be better.
This may not be typical usage but tomorrow I'm going to Crew and I'm travelling back the following day. I don't have enough range to do both journeys without a charge. Now, I have three options. 1. I can stop on the way up for a top up and again on the way back probably adding 45 minutes to my journey time. 2. I could make one stop on the way back but that's risky. 3. I could charge over night at the hotel. I know which option I'd prefer.

I agree, in the grand scheme of things, slow chargers at dentists and supermarkets are little more than a token gesture. A slow charger at work though, could double the commutable distance achievable in an EV. As for supermarkets, I did a 30 minute shop this evening and got 17kWh top up from the supermarket rapid, that's a model that works for me.

I agree, rapid chargers (faster than current) will be essential in the future but we need to be wary of getting hung up on old habits based on different needs - fuel stations. Destination chargers are and will be used more frequently by the majority of EV drivers and the I think the strategic roll out of destination chargers, particularly at places of work should be viewed as just as critical in the uptake of EVs as rapid chargers are.
 

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This may not be typical usage but tomorrow I'm going to Crew and I'm travelling back the following day. I don't have enough range to do both journeys without a charge. Now, I have three options. 1. I can stop on the way up for a top up and again on the way back probably adding 45 minutes to my journey time. 2. I could make one stop on the way back but that's risky. 3. I could charge over night at the hotel. I know which option I'd prefer.

I agree, in the grand scheme of things, slow chargers at dentists and supermarkets are little more than a token gesture. A slow charger at work though, could double the commutable distance achievable in an EV. As for supermarkets, I did a 30 minute shop this evening and got 17kWh top up from the supermarket rapid, that's a model that works for me.

I agree, rapid chargers (faster than current) will be essential in the future but we need to be wary of getting hung up on old habits based on different needs - fuel stations. Destination chargers are and will be used more frequently by the majority of EV drivers and the I think the strategic roll out of destination chargers, particularly at places of work should be viewed as just as critical in the uptake of EVs as rapid chargers are.
I agree workplace charging has a place (except where public transport is the best option like London). I did also say it makes sense for overnight stops at hotels as per your example. But with longer range cars anywhere else does not make sense for slow chargers away from home. How much would you have been willing to pay for your supermarket charge if it wasn't free? Presumably not much more than what it would cost you to charge at home.
 

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That is why rapids at supermarkets can make more sense. A lot of people spend 20-30 minutes there so being able to get a significant charge while you shop would be worth paying for. Even if they were 22kw you'd get a reasonable amount in 20-30 minutes. 2 or 3 of those and 6 or so 7kw ones at ever supermarket all over the country and you finally start having a charging infrastructure that is up to what it needs to do. Then have rapids at all petrol stations. Hub rapids in very busy locations with multiple units (fastned style) and destination chargers are all major destinations so you are tripping over chargers everywhere and then it starts to work. If everyone has an EV you have to have chargers everywhere. At the moment practically nobody does so it seems like total over kill. We either want most people in EVs or a minority just to offset the worst pollution as token effort to comply with air quality regulations. Which is it going to be?

I don't see what is wrong with the petrol station model. For some people that is what they prefer and need now and then. Without rapids I can't go anywhere beyond 35 miles away this time of year. In future that might become 100. That's still not up to what a petrol car does. 300-500 miles in one go is petrol car territory. People are fixated on this because it is what they have now. Having a car that goes fewer and miles and takes longer to refill is worse. Doesn't matter that it can be refilled at home. Sometimes it's just worse. People don't want worse!
 

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I agree workplace charging has a place (except where public transport is the best option like London). I did also say it makes sense for overnight stops at hotels as per your example. But with longer range cars anywhere else does not make sense for slow chargers away from home. How much would you have been willing to pay for your supermarket charge if it wasn't free? Presumably not much more than what it would cost you to charge at home.
It's different in London (or a lot of urban areas) where a lot of us don't have off street parking or the facility to charge at home. I rely on workplace charging, public charging and (on long journeys) rapid charging.
 
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