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Discussion Starter #1
The Polestar 2 thread is getting clogged up with discussing P2 vs M3. I hope it's okay but I thought it'd be better to have this discussion on a separate thread (this one!).

Can they? Send out performance and range improvements OTA? And will they?
Yes they can and yes they probably will. Even if they don't, I'm sure I'll be perfectly happy with the range and performance of the car as I buy it. I can live without a fart mode or a little extra range.
 

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The Polestar 2 thread is getting clogged up with discussing P2 vs M3. I hope it's okay but I thought it'd be better to have this discussion on a separate thread (this one!).



Yes they can and yes they probably will. Even if they don't, I'm sure I'll be perfectly happy with the range and performance of the car as I buy it. I can live without a fart mode or a little extra range.
Good for you! Enjoy it whenever you eventually get it!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
For me, I chose a P2 over an M3 for several reasons, of varying importance:

It'll be a family car:
  • I trust Volvo's emphasis on safety over any other manufacturer
  • I want to be able to grab a physical door handle to get my family out or for emergency staff to get us out. Especially if plunged into a lake or if the car is on fire (recent news stories re Tesla have played on my mind)
  • Improved brembo brakes may mean better braking performance
I don't like Elon, or have as much confidence in Tesla quality control or reliability as I do Volvo's.

I am going to be spending a lot of hours in the car and want to feel I have a premium product after paying a premium price. I am not confident I would feel this in a M3.

The Android Auto interface appeals more to me than Tesla's.

I just don't think the Model 3, or any Tesla looks that good and they are going to be more common than a P2.

The performace, range and price, often bandied around just aren't important to me. The P2 0-60 will be more than fast enough for a family car on UK roads. I'd actually favour the M3 more if it was touted as having a dramatically shorter braking distance than the P2 vs faster 0-60. Price-wise, if you're spending this much, minor differences are less likely to be important and re range, I'm confident enough in the fast charger network for the few occasions I'll be doing a long trip.

None of this is probably that interesting but it seems puzzling to some people why one would choose a P2 over a TM3, so I thought I'd put my reasons out there.
 

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For me, I chose a P2 over an M3 for several reasons, of varying importance:

It'll be a family car:
  • I trust Volvo's emphasis on safety over any other manufacturer
  • I want to be able to grab a physical door handle to get my family out or for emergency staff to get us out. Especially if plunged into a lake or if the car is on fire (recent news stories re Tesla have played on my mind)
  • Improved brembo brakes may mean better braking performance
I don't like Elon, or have as much confidence in Tesla quality control or reliability as I do Volvo's.

I am going to be spending a lot of hours in the car and want to feel I have a premium product after paying a premium price. I am not confident I would feel this in a M3.

The Android Auto interface appeals more to me than Tesla's.

I just don't think the Model 3, or any Tesla looks that good and they are going to be more common than a P2.

The performace, range and price, often bandied around just aren't important to me. The P2 0-60 will be more than fast enough for a family car on UK roads. I'd actually favour the M3 more if it was touted as having a dramatically shorter braking distance than the P2 vs faster 0-60. Price-wise, if you're spending this much, minor differences are less likely to be important and re range, I'm confident enough in the fast charger network for the few occasions I'll be doing a long trip.

None of this is probably that interesting but it seems puzzling to some people why one would choose a P2 over a TM3, so I thought I'd put my reasons out there.
So presumably you are going to pay the extra £5k for the brembo brakes? Also, just to note that the M3 does have physical door handles.
 

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It is great there is an increasing choice of EVs, but be careful about using one case of an 'ambulance chasing' lawyer in USA to gauge "safety". Most modern cars have deadlocks and in a serious accident it is quite common for doors not to open. I suspect the Polestar 2 will be comparable in terms of EuroNCAP safety with Model 3 - I doubt there will be much separating them. Note that in the USA, the Model 3 just got IIHS highest rating, Top Safety Pick+ as did Volvo XC40.

I also wouldn't be so quick to sing the praises of a yet unproven Google operating system for cars. We have seen car manufacturers team up with software companies before, such as Ford and Microsoft and things don't always go as well as you think. I would say there is a genuine risk other manufacturers don't jump on board and in a few years Google cancel it - like many of their products. There are many reasons OEMs may not support, such as Google's poor record on providing updates for older versions of software and privacy concerns. The latter may also put off some buyers.

The cars have different styling and the Polestar will appeal to those who want a more traditional design with a grill. They aren't planning to make a lot of them, so may be a bit more exclusive too. Neither car is a bad choice!
 

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I'm confident enough in the fast charger network for the few occasions I'll be doing a long trip.
I expect many people who do long trips often will find it hard to justify getting a car at Tesla prices without access to the supercharger network. (It will be a few years at lease before there are sensible clusters of "public" high speed (150kw) rapid chargers at enough moterway service stations.)

However given the low sales they are aiming for with the Polester I think they are enough people who don't regularly drive out of range to fullfull their targets.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Ahh, I didn't realise about the M3 having door latch inside car as well as the button. Found that a bit offputting so am glad they haven't just relied on a button.

The iihs XC40 and M3 stats do look very comparable. I would have liked the XC40 to behave like the S90 in a small offset test: https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/volvo/s90-4-door-sedan/2019 where it just powers onwards, reducing the impact on passengers of sudden deceleration. Very few other cars seem to do that.
 

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I’m in a position where I currently have an M3 SR+ from Evezy, and intended to keep it until my P2 arrived having put my deposit down in May. However having driven the M3 for a couple of months I utterly love it and have decided to lease a M3P instead of going with the Polestar.
My main Tesla concerns where:

The looks (really grown on me)
The build quality (mine is excellent, hoping performance will be the same)
Giant screen (not sure how I managed without now)

Main selling points of P2 for me are:

Bigger, it’ll be our main family car
Build quality bound to be good
More traditionally car like
Inconspicuous

Two month laters and having seen a P2 in the metal and having done 2k miles in the M3, my Tesla fears are allayed.

Boot is great, I can fit my bike in no problem(deal breaker for me)
Performance is excellent
Range is very good (except vampire drain)
Size of the car perfect for us four
Build quality ok( P2 would most likely be better)
Superchargers are a game changer for longer distances
And I now love the looks and whilst I think the P2 is very nice too it does look more traditional which I thought initially would appeal to me, turns out it doesn’t.
Also never used android so I’d be a bit apprehensive about that and lack of Apple connectivity(also no car play on M3)

All in all.. both great cars, and feel blessed to have the choice. No one will have any dissatisfaction whichever way they jump.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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A quick summary of where we are.

Polestar 2 Launch Edition is £46,400 and the Tesla Model 3 Long Range is £47,000. Polestar 2 with Performance Pack is £51,400 and Tesla Model 3 Performance is £52,000.

Tesla Model 3 benefits and features: Supercharging, 10% more range, faster 0-60, dog mode, security mode/dashcam, track mode (Performance Model), software Easter eggs and games, optional "full self drive"

Common to both: OTA updates, Spotify, ADAS/Autopilot, full glass roof, all wheel drive, CCS fast charging, always connected, fully vegan interior, electric heated seats front and rear, app control with preconditioning and "phone as key"

Polestar 2 benefits and features: three years servicing, LED matrix lights, powered hatchback tailgate with "virtual pedal", branded HK sound system, Google Play Store, heated "Aquablade" wipers, dedicated driver display, wireless phone charger, traffic sign recognition, heated steering wheel (does Model 3 have this?), optional adjustable suspension.

That's all I can think of for now
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Nice summary Witchfinder and great experiences report Phoenix. I'm starting to regret this thread now, as I am being more and more tempted by the M3 after initially not being interested in it at all!
 

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I would treat the Polestar 2 "OTA Updates" statement with some caution. Yes I am sure Google Auto will be updated (for a while ;) ) using the 4G connection, but there is no certainty of this being able to update all the many components made by 3rd parties. This is an area the even the mighty VW are struggling with due to various manufacturers modules being integrated - such as Mobileye for driver assistance.

Frankly, it is highly unlikely the Polestar will have the upgradability of Tesla. For some, this will be an acceptable tradeoff to get a "higher quality" interior or "better build quality". As I say, choice is good :)
 

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A quick summary of where we are.

Polestar 2 Launch Edition is £46,400 and the Tesla Model 3 Long Range is £47,000. Polestar 2 with Performance Pack is £51,400 and Tesla Model 3 Performance is £52,000.

Tesla Model 3 benefits and features: Supercharging, 10% more range, faster 0-60, dog mode, security mode/dashcam, track mode (Performance Model), software Easter eggs and games, optional "full self drive"

Common to both: OTA updates, Spotify, ADAS/Autopilot, full glass roof, all wheel drive, CCS fast charging, always connected, fully vegan interior, electric heated seats front and rear, app control with preconditioning and "phone as key"

Polestar 2 benefits and features: three years servicing, LED matrix lights, powered hatchback tailgate with "virtual pedal", branded HK sound system, Google Play Store, heated "Aquablade" wipers, dedicated driver display, wireless phone charger, traffic sign recognition, heated steering wheel (does Model 3 have this?), optional adjustable suspension.

That's all I can think of for now
Also add the following for the M3:
  • available in quantity now
  • lower cost versions available now
  • currently 12.7% more EPA range and this to be increased by another 5% shortly from OTA update
  • 5% performance enhancement coming from OTA update shortly
  • better glass roof resulting in more rear headroom
  • no rear tunnel for middle rear seat passenger
  • bigger frunk and overall storage capacity
  • Premium sound for the LR and Perf models
  • On a 3 phase 22Kw public chargepoint, the M3 LR and Perf models can 11Kw rather than just 7.2Kw
  • Model 3 is more efficient in terms of energy consumption
  • Netflix, Web browsing etc
 

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You can't just expand one thing into multiple bullet points. I already stated that range was better on the Model 3.

Availability Vs Exclusivity? Benefit? Nah.

We can't really comment on what the apps available for P2 will be, but who knows, maybe Netflix will be there.

@proddick - personal incredulity isn't really an argument. Volvo and Polestar have categorically said that every piece of software in the vehicle can be updated over the air.
 

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You can't just expand one thing into multiple bullet points. I already stated that range was better on the Model 3.

Availability Vs Exclusivity? Benefit? Nah.

We can't really comment on what the apps available for P2 will be, but who knows, maybe Netflix will be there.

@proddick - personal incredulity isn't really an argument. Volvo and Polestar have categorically said that every piece of software in the vehicle can be updated over the air.
Yes I can. You stated that range was 10% better whereas in fact it is almost 13% better and soon to be increased by another 5%. Enjoy your exclusivity - currently so exclusive that there aren't any!
I'd rather it be readily available in volume with a range of cost options rather than a sideline that quickly gets forgotten about.
 

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Volvo and Polestar have categorically said that every piece of software in the vehicle can be updated over the air.
Good to know and hopefully they won't have the challenges iPace is still suffering and VW are struggling with for Golf Mk8. Do you have source for the claim?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
To be fair Google have quite a lot of resources, know quite a lot about software and OTA updates and will probably do quite a lot to make sure their new platform is a success.
 

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To be fair Google have quite a lot of resources, know quite a lot about software and OTA updates and will probably do quite a lot to make sure their new platform is a success.
Are Google managing all the drive control and safety features of the P2 Inc braking, acceleration etc?
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I doubt it, but I expect Polestar / volvo to set those up fairly well from the get go.
 

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Good idea to separate out the growing noise from Tesla owners about Polestar 2. They must feel threatened to become desperate to prove how M3 ‘beats’ P2 on every imaginable point.

Of course in the real world life is never like that, and it is important that everyone deals in facts and not what they ‘wish’ was the case.

Recent example, some Tesla owners have been decrying P2 because it won’t have Apple Car Play full access.

But it will, honest, and however much you say it won’t, it still will👀 So, iPhone 11 chip features as a first UWB, Samsung and Google are not far behind. The P2 will use UWB (ultra wide band) tech to create v secure and v flexible connections with iPhone and others that follow. So P2 will not have limited Car Play access, but the best. Go figure. Android connections will be to the same standard.

One other thing, some people talk about the TM3 having a glass roof, understandable I guess, but it doesn’t. What it has is two glass panels which fit into a rather large and obvious central metal bar sitting across the roof structure, which I guess adds some much needed rigidity, and ease of build.

P2 is the one with a glass roof, a single glass roof stretching from front to back. Now that’s a glass roof👍

Am forced to admit that P2 will not feature a fart mode, but tbh, I suspect that, unlike maybe for Tesla owners, it is not something that will ever be missed.....

Two great cars, each with their own special features. No value in pretending that one is better the other, they are just different🙂
 
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