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Polestar 2 vs Model 3

28K views 197 replies 42 participants last post by  polerad 
#1 ·
The Polestar 2 thread is getting clogged up with discussing P2 vs M3. I hope it's okay but I thought it'd be better to have this discussion on a separate thread (this one!).

Can they? Send out performance and range improvements OTA? And will they?
Yes they can and yes they probably will. Even if they don't, I'm sure I'll be perfectly happy with the range and performance of the car as I buy it. I can live without a fart mode or a little extra range.
 
#2 ·
The Polestar 2 thread is getting clogged up with discussing P2 vs M3. I hope it's okay but I thought it'd be better to have this discussion on a separate thread (this one!).



Yes they can and yes they probably will. Even if they don't, I'm sure I'll be perfectly happy with the range and performance of the car as I buy it. I can live without a fart mode or a little extra range.
Good for you! Enjoy it whenever you eventually get it!
 
#3 ·
For me, I chose a P2 over an M3 for several reasons, of varying importance:

It'll be a family car:
  • I trust Volvo's emphasis on safety over any other manufacturer
  • I want to be able to grab a physical door handle to get my family out or for emergency staff to get us out. Especially if plunged into a lake or if the car is on fire (recent news stories re Tesla have played on my mind)
  • Improved brembo brakes may mean better braking performance
I don't like Elon, or have as much confidence in Tesla quality control or reliability as I do Volvo's.

I am going to be spending a lot of hours in the car and want to feel I have a premium product after paying a premium price. I am not confident I would feel this in a M3.

The Android Auto interface appeals more to me than Tesla's.

I just don't think the Model 3, or any Tesla looks that good and they are going to be more common than a P2.

The performace, range and price, often bandied around just aren't important to me. The P2 0-60 will be more than fast enough for a family car on UK roads. I'd actually favour the M3 more if it was touted as having a dramatically shorter braking distance than the P2 vs faster 0-60. Price-wise, if you're spending this much, minor differences are less likely to be important and re range, I'm confident enough in the fast charger network for the few occasions I'll be doing a long trip.

None of this is probably that interesting but it seems puzzling to some people why one would choose a P2 over a TM3, so I thought I'd put my reasons out there.
 
#5 ·
It is great there is an increasing choice of EVs, but be careful about using one case of an 'ambulance chasing' lawyer in USA to gauge "safety". Most modern cars have deadlocks and in a serious accident it is quite common for doors not to open. I suspect the Polestar 2 will be comparable in terms of EuroNCAP safety with Model 3 - I doubt there will be much separating them. Note that in the USA, the Model 3 just got IIHS highest rating, Top Safety Pick+ as did Volvo XC40.

I also wouldn't be so quick to sing the praises of a yet unproven Google operating system for cars. We have seen car manufacturers team up with software companies before, such as Ford and Microsoft and things don't always go as well as you think. I would say there is a genuine risk other manufacturers don't jump on board and in a few years Google cancel it - like many of their products. There are many reasons OEMs may not support, such as Google's poor record on providing updates for older versions of software and privacy concerns. The latter may also put off some buyers.

The cars have different styling and the Polestar will appeal to those who want a more traditional design with a grill. They aren't planning to make a lot of them, so may be a bit more exclusive too. Neither car is a bad choice!
 
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#7 ·
Ahh, I didn't realise about the M3 having door latch inside car as well as the button. Found that a bit offputting so am glad they haven't just relied on a button.

The iihs XC40 and M3 stats do look very comparable. I would have liked the XC40 to behave like the S90 in a small offset test: https://www.iihs.org/ratings/vehicle/volvo/s90-4-door-sedan/2019 where it just powers onwards, reducing the impact on passengers of sudden deceleration. Very few other cars seem to do that.
 
#8 ·
I’m in a position where I currently have an M3 SR+ from Evezy, and intended to keep it until my P2 arrived having put my deposit down in May. However having driven the M3 for a couple of months I utterly love it and have decided to lease a M3P instead of going with the Polestar.
My main Tesla concerns where:

The looks (really grown on me)
The build quality (mine is excellent, hoping performance will be the same)
Giant screen (not sure how I managed without now)

Main selling points of P2 for me are:

Bigger, it’ll be our main family car
Build quality bound to be good
More traditionally car like
Inconspicuous

Two month laters and having seen a P2 in the metal and having done 2k miles in the M3, my Tesla fears are allayed.

Boot is great, I can fit my bike in no problem(deal breaker for me)
Performance is excellent
Range is very good (except vampire drain)
Size of the car perfect for us four
Build quality ok( P2 would most likely be better)
Superchargers are a game changer for longer distances
And I now love the looks and whilst I think the P2 is very nice too it does look more traditional which I thought initially would appeal to me, turns out it doesn’t.
Also never used android so I’d be a bit apprehensive about that and lack of Apple connectivity(also no car play on M3)

All in all.. both great cars, and feel blessed to have the choice. No one will have any dissatisfaction whichever way they jump. [emoji106][emoji106]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#9 · (Edited)
A quick summary of where we are.

Polestar 2 Launch Edition is £46,400 and the Tesla Model 3 Long Range is £47,000. Polestar 2 with Performance Pack is £51,400 and Tesla Model 3 Performance is £52,000.

Tesla Model 3 benefits and features: Supercharging, 10% more range, faster 0-60, dog mode, security mode/dashcam, track mode (Performance Model), software Easter eggs and games, optional "full self drive"

Common to both: OTA updates, Spotify, ADAS/Autopilot, full glass roof, all wheel drive, CCS fast charging, always connected, fully vegan interior, electric heated seats front and rear, app control with preconditioning and "phone as key"

Polestar 2 benefits and features: three years servicing, LED matrix lights, powered hatchback tailgate with "virtual pedal", branded HK sound system, Google Play Store, heated "Aquablade" wipers, dedicated driver display, wireless phone charger, traffic sign recognition, heated steering wheel (does Model 3 have this?), optional adjustable suspension.

That's all I can think of for now
 
#12 ·
Also add the following for the M3:
  • available in quantity now
  • lower cost versions available now
  • currently 12.7% more EPA range and this to be increased by another 5% shortly from OTA update
  • 5% performance enhancement coming from OTA update shortly
  • better glass roof resulting in more rear headroom
  • no rear tunnel for middle rear seat passenger
  • bigger frunk and overall storage capacity
  • Premium sound for the LR and Perf models
  • On a 3 phase 22Kw public chargepoint, the M3 LR and Perf models can 11Kw rather than just 7.2Kw
  • Model 3 is more efficient in terms of energy consumption
  • Netflix, Web browsing etc
 
#11 ·
I would treat the Polestar 2 "OTA Updates" statement with some caution. Yes I am sure Google Auto will be updated (for a while ;) ) using the 4G connection, but there is no certainty of this being able to update all the many components made by 3rd parties. This is an area the even the mighty VW are struggling with due to various manufacturers modules being integrated - such as Mobileye for driver assistance.

Frankly, it is highly unlikely the Polestar will have the upgradability of Tesla. For some, this will be an acceptable tradeoff to get a "higher quality" interior or "better build quality". As I say, choice is good :)
 
#13 ·
You can't just expand one thing into multiple bullet points. I already stated that range was better on the Model 3.

Availability Vs Exclusivity? Benefit? Nah.

We can't really comment on what the apps available for P2 will be, but who knows, maybe Netflix will be there.

@proddick - personal incredulity isn't really an argument. Volvo and Polestar have categorically said that every piece of software in the vehicle can be updated over the air.
 
#14 ·
Yes I can. You stated that range was 10% better whereas in fact it is almost 13% better and soon to be increased by another 5%. Enjoy your exclusivity - currently so exclusive that there aren't any!
I'd rather it be readily available in volume with a range of cost options rather than a sideline that quickly gets forgotten about.
 
#20 ·
Good idea to separate out the growing noise from Tesla owners about Polestar 2. They must feel threatened to become desperate to prove how M3 ‘beats’ P2 on every imaginable point.

Of course in the real world life is never like that, and it is important that everyone deals in facts and not what they ‘wish’ was the case.

Recent example, some Tesla owners have been decrying P2 because it won’t have Apple Car Play full access.

But it will, honest, and however much you say it won’t, it still will? So, iPhone 11 chip features as a first UWB, Samsung and Google are not far behind. The P2 will use UWB (ultra wide band) tech to create v secure and v flexible connections with iPhone and others that follow. So P2 will not have limited Car Play access, but the best. Go figure. Android connections will be to the same standard.

One other thing, some people talk about the TM3 having a glass roof, understandable I guess, but it doesn’t. What it has is two glass panels which fit into a rather large and obvious central metal bar sitting across the roof structure, which I guess adds some much needed rigidity, and ease of build.

P2 is the one with a glass roof, a single glass roof stretching from front to back. Now that’s a glass roof?

Am forced to admit that P2 will not feature a fart mode, but tbh, I suspect that, unlike maybe for Tesla owners, it is not something that will ever be missed.....

Two great cars, each with their own special features. No value in pretending that one is better the other, they are just different?
 
#22 ·
Good idea to separate out the growing noise from Tesla owners about Polestar 2. They must feel threatened to become desperate to prove how M3 ‘beats’ P2 on every imaginable point.

Of course in the real world life is never like that, and it is important that everyone deals in facts and not what they ‘wish’ was the case.

Recent example, some Tesla owners have been decrying P2 because it won’t have Apple Car Play full access.

But it will, honest, and however much you say it won’t, it still will? So, iPhone 11 chip features as a first UWB, Samsung and Google are not far behind. The P2 will use UWB (ultra wide band) tech to create v secure and v flexible connections with iPhone and others that follow. So P2 will not have limited Car Play access, but the best. Go figure. Android connections will be to the same standard.

One other thing, some people talk about the TM3 having a glass roof, understandable I guess, but it doesn’t. What it has is two glass panels which fit into a rather large and obvious central metal bar sitting across the roof structure, which I guess adds some much needed rigidity, and ease of build.

P2 is the one with a glass roof, a single glass roof stretching from front to back. Now that’s a glass roof?

Am forced to admit that P2 will not feature a fart mode, but tbh, I suspect that, unlike maybe for Tesla owners, it is not something that will ever be missed.....

Two great cars, each with their own special features. No value in pretending that one is better the other, they are just different?
No threatened at all! Just responding to a post from a Polestar fan on what makes the M3 a better proposition. I guess we'll see when the P2 eventually is available.
 
#21 ·
For me, as well as all the little Tesla benefits it's 100% the Supercharger network! I'll be able to drive all over Europe without a care in the M3 and very fast charging.

Just can't risk the P2 with random charging networks and broken chargers. I've been there before with the Leaf.
 
#29 ·
#32 ·
Very useful thread as I am struggling to choose between M3, P2 and XC40 - and will decide as moer info becomes available on P2 and XC40 - There seems to be mopre and more reviews on P2 and most are very positive so I am currently leaning in that direction but not yet 100%. One of teh downsides of M3 that i have come across is the large display having all the dat and teh font not being very big. My long siht is great but need glassses for reading hence having dials or large font is a big deal. Need to see P2 in teh flesh to see how that will work for me. I only charge at home so charge/range is not a massive requirement.
 
#33 ·
Just my comments on why I changed my P2 pre-order to a M3 and have ended up with a Model 3 Performance at the <£50000 price as I got it during the price cut time.
Supercharger, autopilot and range were what made me change my mind.
My M3 has a WLTP range of 329 miles and as expected this is much less real motorway miles. About 250 at 10C in rain, so even less when it's really cold. I want a car that can do my 200 miles to Devon (190 motorway miles), so a WLTP range under 300 won't make it.
OK, so I can use the motorway chargers... Ecotricity has a total of four CCS chargers on this route and these are 50kW plus fingers crossed if they work having done this route in my 100 mile battery range i3 REX. There are 24 150kW CCS supercharger stalls on this route and they have a better chance of working than Ecotricity.;)
Since getting my M3 in August I have had five updates and NoA seems to be getting continuous improvements. I know Polestar/Volvo will get OTA updates, but they are less focused on self driving and 190 motorway miles are what I want self driving for...I don't expect it for single track Dartmoor roads.
After all the FUD about build quality mine is fine but obviously a different design to the P2, which I have sat in at Google IO in May. I do like Android Automotive in the P2/XC40.
So I'm sure people will like the P2, but for me the M3 was a better bet and I'm happy with my decision... plus I have an EV that is quicker than the BMW 430D which it replaced and will have a year or so of driving before the P2 arrives. Gadgets now rather than waiting ;)
 
#34 ·
Due to change company car in May next year and trying to decide between one of these two (would be M3P and probably non-"performance" P2) and here are my thoughts:

Have two small kids (4 + 1) and with an estate car currently I am put off by the saloon boot on the M3, its really handy being able to pile everything in to an estate boot and I'm apprehensive to move away from that. The P2 should be pretty useable given its a hatchback.
Prefer the more conventional interior of the P2 in that it has a few buttons and controls on the stalks, the M3 is a bit sparse but I'm sure you get used to it
Prefer the two-screen setup of the P2
Don't love the exterior looks of either to be honest, M3 looks like a melted hippo and the arse/rear 3/4 of the P2 is definitely a bit odd
Access to supercharger network is not a consideration for me as I'll be doing 12k a year of which 10k is a 15 mile each-way commute with my own charger at either end
There is no Tesla dealer or service centre (yet) in Northern Ireland, SC is planned and in the works though

Have sent Polestar an email asking about availability of a test drive in Ireland and where they will be sold/maintained. Don't expect an answer anytime soon though!
 
#39 ·
When I started this post, I was quite set on the P2 and have paid the deposit. Now after researching the M3 a lot, I am coming around to it and am investigating leases. The fact I can get it much or worst case slightly sooner than the P2 is a motivating factor. I will still probably buy / lease a P2 or P3 at some point though.
 
#40 ·
When I started this post, I was quite set on the P2 and have paid the deposit. Now after researching the M3 a lot, I am coming around to it and am investigating leases.
That's the opposite of what I've done.

Started off pretty sure I'd be ordering a m3P but then spent a couple of months in the model 3 UK facebook group and have been completely put off and now have a deposit down on the Polestar 2.

and yes, I've heard the argument plenty of times about how 'it's only people with problems that post' but, if I'd made a list of all of the model 3 issues I've read about over the last few weeks it'd be dozens and dozens of different things and, not only that, Tesla have been really unconvincing in their customer support in far too many examples. I'm sure it'll improve, but for now, I'm not at all tempted to roll the dice.
 
#43 ·
I wouldn’t buy any EV outright as the technology is changing so quickly, I’m leasing my M3P and would have done the same with a P2, my wife has a MG ZS EV on order too.
I’m also on the FB M3 page, and yes there’s a lot of niggly things re build quality, service centres and after sales, but overall the people who have the car seem to love it in spite of its flaws.
The process of having an SR+ from EVEzy helped me decide to get an M3P as opposed to a P2, it is effectively a try before you buy/lease scenario.
The car is simply fantastic, not perfect but nothing ever is.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#45 ·
Conversley, I wouldn't buy a M3 but am considering buying a P2 through my company. Mainly because I anticipate being happier with the quality and ownership than I may be with a Tesla. I have had a V70 for 4 years and have been happy with adaptive cruise, build quality and reliability on that. The P2 will be a step up and I should be happy keeping it for about 5 years. Over that time, after selling it, it will cost less than leasing it I think. But no worries over mileage, my wife kerbing it or the kids filling it with mud and assorted rubbish.
 
#46 ·
Thats a tough choice as to buy outright or pcp/lease/subscription etc. I get all the points about buying is risky as the tech is changing so quickly but I struggle with the maths if the car is kept for 5 years minimum and you need 15,000 miles per annum minimum. Hence I am probably going to buy (through company scheme) but not yet 100% decided.
 
#53 · (Edited)
For the benefit of anyone undecided and considering both vehicules, i'll explain the reason why I choose to reserve a P*2 over a M3.
I live near Montréal, where we have very rough winters with lots of rapid temperature changes generating complex weather phenomenons.
We can have snow, followed by warm temp that will melt the snow to slush, followed by sudden temp drop during the night, converting the slush to ice.
Also, lots of abarsives and chemicals are scattered on road.

Which means that, for me,...

1) Frameless windows is an absolute deal breaker. The M3 needs to lower the window when opening the door, which means you can not open the door and enter the car when the windows are frozen. Defreezing the windows by pre-heating the car for a long time, if it works, is only half of the solution because...
2) M3 fancy door handles. Anyone with some knowledge in physics knows about the lever simple machine : A lever amplifies an input force to provide a greater output force. In the case of the M3 (and Aston Martin btw), the door handle is designed against the user because you need to press on the smallest portion of the lever first to gain access to the longer portion. Lots of force is needed to free the handle from the ice, when possible.
3) Body protection. The P*2 has plastic trims all around the bottom of the car. The parts of the car most affected by debris projection and salt is plastic instead of fragile paint. Many M3 owners were shocked to see their fenders sandblasted to the metal after one winter. Rust beginning to show up within the first year of ownership.
4) Charge port design. M3 seems to have lots of frozen charge port door problems. Insufficient sealing and opened by a motor. P*2 seems to have huge seals and is opened by hand. By having to push the door first to open it, any ice will crack and fall off. Not flashy-techy but better design.

So, even if the M3 has that more range, costs this less and accelerate that much faster, it doesn't matter a lot to me.
I just want to be able to enter the car when I want, charge it when I want and not visit the bodyshop after each winter.
 
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