Possible bearing problem

12203 Views 133 Replies 34 Participants Last post by Marli, Sep 6, 2018

Friends Electric

Discussion Starter · Oct 15, 2017

Hi there. I am new to the Ampera having only picked mine up in June, it is a 2013 Electron with 44000 miles on the clock.
I have been really enjoying driving it until last night when I went to use the car for a trip into London and I noticed that the reversing camera did not come on and then as I went to drive away it made a strange whining noise and felt a little laboured in pulling away. I abandoned my journey and parked up ax not to cause any damage.
I have no warning lights coming on bug the noise is the same in drive and reverse and both ice and electric modes.
I have only had the car 3 months and purchased a warranty but I am guessing certain things will not be covered.
Is the bearing issue covered under the battery warranty or is this likely to be an expensive bill coming my way.
Grateful for any advice.
Thanks.

1 - 20 of 134 Posts

donald

· #5 · Oct 16, 2017

'Felt a little laboured' doesn't ring as a bearing failure. Also, I would be surprised if you really hear the bearing in reverse, you'd have to get a fair old pace up in reverse before you really heard it, or even over the ICE (it is not a very quiet engine). To get that loud usually requires a moderate distance travelled, it doesn't happen that you can't hear it one moment and then it's that loud the next.

I'm not saying it is or not, but doesn't strike me immediately as the issue.

The motor bearing sounds exactly like a circular saw when it goes, which I wouldn't personally describe as a 'whine'. If it doesn't sound like a circular saw, I'd suggest it isn't the motor bearing.

Can you post an audio recording of it?

It does sound like a drivetrain issue though, and as long as the warranty is in tact (FSH) you are covered for 8 years and 100k miles.

Reactions: 2

donald

· #7 · Oct 16, 2017

TBH sounds more like a brake issue. But let's not guess, a recording would be a good start if you can capture that.

If you have a small MP3 recorder, cable tie it to something under the bonnet and set it recording, then just drive around the block. If there are noises from the transmission you will hear them immediately on the recording, it is unmistakable from there.

Reactions: 2

donald

· #10 · Oct 18, 2017

Yup. Motor bearing. No question whatsoever.

And you've got it bad. Definitely a flat bed job to dealer in that state, I am afraid.

Surprised it collapsed so rapidly, but sometimes that's what happens, so I have heard. You must have one of the original nylon cages else it'd not have gone that way so fast.

On the one hand, sorry for that news, on the other it is fully covered by the electric drive-train warranty (and don't let them try to convince you otherwise).

Reactions: 3

donald

· #19 · Oct 26, 2017

Friends Electric said:
Not looking good so far. Had the service manager just tell me it is going to cost £8000 to repair and I would be better taking it back to the garage I bought it from.
Now just sat in reception waiting. They haven't even looked at it yet! So far not impressed.

What a lot of total shyte.

Unless the loss of bearing has done some sort of terminal damage to the transmission, which I have never heard of in reading about the 100,000 Volts in the US for some years, then it is simply a matter of replacing the bearing.

They are talking crap and clearly don't know the first thing about these cars.

Sounds worse than it is. It's just a £100 bearing and 3 hrs work.

Reactions: 2

donald

· #29 · Oct 27, 2017

Russ said:
Why is this such an issue and why do they try to wriggle out of the main warranty! Surely they get paid for the repair by Vauxhall.
It makes one wonder if the dealership get a commission for not accepting warranty claims.

It's the British way. I struggle to see how they actually stay in business, most UK businesses, they employ people who really don't want to do business.

The genuinely peculiar thing is that if you follow it up and speak with the company owners, they don't seem to give twopence either.

I used to think it was because these companies are just fronts for drug dealers or money launderers or something. If that is true, then it seems drug running and money laundering is the biggest business in the UK. Maybe it is, and I am too naive to believe it?

donald

· #32 · Oct 28, 2017

How the heck they could determine which bearing it is, I would be very interested to know.
However, to have gone from nothing to that bad in just a moment does suggest something not quite the same as 'the usual' bearing issue.

Originally, either bearing failure would need to involve the rotor and bearings, the bearings were not intended to be swapped separately from the rotor so originally it came as one part. It is a complete removal of the transmission.

After the 'design fault' that emerged, the removal and refit of the outer bearing was a solution developed after the event.

It is theoretically possible thought that it could be the engine side (not sure what they mean electronics side, the electronics sit on top), but is definitely double definitely covered by warranty, assuming the car has a correct service record.

I've posted my own email confirmation from Vauxhall here before, as have others. Print and use those.

This is the first case I have ever heard of for the 'other' bearing going.

See less See more

Reactions: 1

donald

· #36 · Oct 30, 2017

Your scan of the TSB seems to be confounding my browser.

Anyhow, this is not a 'report' this is a TSB.

The dealers sound like rank amateurs. You can't trust them with your car. This is a very very common fault with the Ampera, in fact one of the truly common faults. There are dealers out there who have swapped out dozens of these. Go find one.

Reactions: 1

donald

· #39 · Oct 31, 2017

Friends Electric said:
....Been on the phone to Vauxhall today and they have spoken to the garage and they maintain it is not covered ....

Do you mean the garage or Vauxhall?

Vauxhall really are numb-nuts too.

Feel free to quote directly my own email and the service reference number, I give my unlimited permission to Ampera owners. It might just 'help' them to remember.... As you can see, they weren't very quick then either and took them a bit of 'confusion' to get over, but I made sure I got it in writing before buying the car:-

(PM me if you have any further problems)

"Service Request Number: 489214-913464397
Date: 9th February 2015

Dear Mr Donald

I write further to my previous email sent to you.

Please accept my apologies for the confusion in my last email, I have now confirmed with our Technical Team that the Electriv [sic] Drive Unit assembly and internal components refers to the 4ET50 Transmission, which is covered for 8 years/100,000 miles.

If you require any further assistance, please respond via return email or feel free to call us on 0800 026 0275, quoting your reference number which is stated above.

Yours sincerely,

Catherine Douglas

Customer Service Manager
My Ampera Specialist "

See less See more

Reactions: 2

donald

· #42 · Nov 1, 2017

Friends Electric said:
Thanks Donald
This almost makes me want to just return the car and get something else, I really don't have the time to have constant arguments over who should be paying for a bill, but I do love the car but can only think the service will get worse over time not better.

I am afraid this was exactly the dilemma I faced with mine. I went with it, but as the 100k mile point approached, that pro-con balance tipped.

You 'just' need to find yourself a half-decent dealer and gain some confidence with them.

Reactions: 2

donald

· #48 · Nov 1, 2017

Star City Birmingham know this job, having done it on my/Garry's car. It took a little training on my behalf, however. What really didn't ring true was that they said they had done quite a few of them, but then questioned whether it was covered under warranty? Had to send through the above email to prove to them it was. Odd? Were people going along and swallowing the cost themselves? I know that some had been done there before because some folks here had mentioned it. Maybe they were within the 3 year 'full' warranty so the question of the 8 year coverage didn't come up? Anyhow, Star City was vaguely passable, though the guy who did mine no longer works there. The new Ampera tech seems competent, but there was only the one there the last time I went. I trust they'd do the job better next time. I regret to say I think @Friends Electric view point that tech support will decline over time seems more likely true than not, that is to say until someone has the balls to strike up an independent garage for Ampera. If they could sort some arrangement for flat-bedding the cars in from far afield, I think they'd have virtually a captive market for the 1,000 or so cars in the UK. Whether that constitutes a business model or not, that would be for an accountant to figure out.

It's up to Vauxhall how much support they are going to give Ampera owners, and although it was passable service, I didn't want to be beholden to them into post-warranty. Just my personal preference, I wanted to have the confidence that it was either someone else's problem, or alternatively that reasonably priced help and support was just down the road. I didn't think this condition would be met for Ampera for me after 100k. Very happy that Garry is please with the car. They are just super great cars and you all are lucky to have one. I still regret selling it and did debate getting a newer one. But the same decision point would come again in the future.

See less See more

Reactions: 1

donald

· #50 · Nov 1, 2017

Carl P said:
Don't forget, all, that the ex Chevy Volt dealers can also work on them.
I personally know the guys at ex-Cambridge Chevy (now MG/Subaru) and they are happy to order parts from Chevy and can work on the cars. As they are not listed as a current Chevy dealer, Vauxhall told me they weren't able to service the car to validate the warranty, but were indicating that current Chevy dealers authorised to work on the Volt were able to service and validate warranty.
Just another option for any work to be done.

This one has rattled around before, and it seems, for reasons that cannot be fathomed by any rational being, Chevrolet and Vauxhall will refuse to do warranty work for each other. If you pay them, I am sure the ex-Chevrolet dealers would be happy. But AFAIK Vauxhall dealers would refuse to do paid work on Chevrolets.

I did hear murmurings about Ampera servicing being opened up to all Vauxhall dealers that wanted to do it, but I have no idea if that was casual or meaningful gossip.

donald

· #54 · Nov 2, 2017 (Edited)

They really are numb-nuts.

As it happened, I specifically probed on this question, which they also resisted at the time, because I was aware of the bearing issue, and even though there were very few out of the initial warranty, I still had my concerns. Just as well, because Vauxhall were still flapping, like with you, when the time came.

Why oh why must we be subjected to this nonsense?

FWIW, this was the entirety of the email exchange, just so you know (my comments in bold theirs in italics). The last exchange should also be very interesting to people. If you think your warranty has expired due to lack of servicing, just say "but there is no servicing on the electric system, ergo none has been missed";-

___________________________________________________

From: donald
Sent: 01 February 2015 23:48
To: [email protected]
Subject: Warranty on 2nd hand Amperas (in the UK).

Would it be OK if I direct this question to you?

My local Vauxhall dealer does not seem entirely sure.

If I buy a 2012, 2nd hand Ampera, what warranty cover do I inherit?

(Though I have heard that it is generally a very reliable car, I am particularly concerned in regards a fault that appears to be common, some plastic ring in the gearbox that is now being manufactured from brass, sounds very expensive and a very involved repair.)

Am I right in saying that there is an 8 year, 100,000 mile warranty on the electric drive train and battery, from first registration?

Could you please provide me anything in print to explain the warranty coverage that would still exist on a 2012 Ampera?

Thank you.

Service Request Number: 489214-913464397
Date: 4th February 2015

Dear Mr Donald

Thank you for your email received 2nd February 2015, regarding the Vauxhall Ampera.

I can confirm the New Vehicle Warranty for the Ampera is for a period of 3 years/60,000 miles from the original registration date and the Battery and High Voltage components are covered up to 8 years/100,000 miles.

If you have any further queries, please respond via return email or feel free to call us on 0800 026 0275 quoting your reference number which is stated above.

Yours sincerely,

Catherine Douglas
Customer Service Manager
My Ampera Specialist

Thank you for your reply, however, could you please clarify the ambiguity on whether the whole of the transmission is considered to be a 'high voltage component' (as it contains the high voltage motors). e.g., if there is a motor bearing failure, is this a 'high voltage component' covered by the 8 year warranty? Is a motor reduction gear within the 4ET50 transmission a 'high voltage component'?

I would have thought that the electric drivetrain, the subject of the 8 years warranty, would consist of;
1. battery,
2. inverters,
3. chargers and sockets,
4. complete 4ET50 transmission

Is this correct?

Thank you, I would appreciate the clarification.

Best regards,

Service Request Number: 489214-913464397
Date: 4th February 2015

Dear Mr Donald
Thank you for your further email.
As requested, please see below for confirmation of the components which are covered by the 8 year/100,000 mile warranty:
- Battery
- High voltage wiring
- Control modules
- E-compressor
- Traction power inverter module
- Accessory power module
- On board charger
- Brake modulator assembly
- Electric drive unit assembly and internal components
- Auxiliary fluids pump controller & 3 phase cables
If you have any further queries, please respond via return email or feel free to call us on 0800 026 0275 quoting your reference number which is stated above.
Yours sincerely,
Catherine Douglas
Customer Service Manager
My Ampera Specialist

Thank you for the list.

At the risk of taking up too much of your time, can I please just check if 'Electric drive unit assembly and internal components' means the complete 4ET50 transmission?

Also, I am not sure if you may be able to answer or direct me accordingly, I have asked my local Vauxhall dealer about buying an extended warranty but he had no specific figures for the Ampera. He suggested it would probably come under the warranty covering '1.4 litre' size of engine, for which he had a price. Would this be correct, or can you advise me who else I might make the enquiry to?

Best regards,

Service Request Number: 489214-913464397
Date: 5th February 2015

Dear Mr Donald

Thank you for your further email.

I can confirm the transmission is a standard automatic transmission and therefore holds the manufacturer’s warranty, which is for a period of 3 years or 60,000 miles.

In relation to an extended warranty, as a manufacturer this is not something that we supply, any extended warranties are purchased directly from a Vauxhall retailer, they would be able to answer any questions you have surrounding this.

If you require any assistance in the meantime, please respond via return email or feel free to call us on 0800 026 0034, quoting your reference number which is stated above.

Yours sincerely,

Catherine Douglas
Customer Service Manager
Vauxhall Customer Care

I'm sorry but there is nothing standard about the automatic transmission. It consists of the engine directly attached to a motor, with a hub clutched to an epicyclic component of a 2nd [main] drive motor, with a single reduction gear to the output differential, all in one housing. It is a single assembly which GM call the 4ET50 transmission, containing those two motors, reduction gears and clutch sets. There are no components anyone would regard as 'conventional'.

There are no other transmission components other than the 4ET50 assembly.

Please can I ask you to revisit that question: I cannot tell what components you are referring to as 'Electric drive unit assembly and internal components' if it is not the 4ET50 transmission.

Best regards,

Service Request Number: 489214-913464397
Date: 6th February 2015

Dear Mr Donald
Thank you for your further email.
I will review this matter further with our Technical Team to see if I can provide you with any further information, I will then come back to you by Tuesday 11th February with an update.
In the meantime, if you require any assistance, please respond via return email or feel free to call us on 0800 026 0275, quoting your reference number which is stated above.
Yours sincerely,
Catherine Douglas
Customer Service Manager
My Ampera Specialist

Thank you for your reply.

For information, I believe the term 'transmission' I have used is misleading and, is not actually used by GM for that component of the Ampera. Instead they refer to it as a 'multi-mode electric transaxle'.

Best regards,

Service Request Number: 489214-913464397
Date: 9th February 2015

Dear Mr Donald
I write further to my previous email sent to you.
Please accept my apologies for the confusion in my last email, I have now confirmed with our Technical Team that the Electriv Drive Unit assembly and internal components refers to the 4ET50 Transmission, which is covered for 8 years/100,000 miles.
If you require any further assistance, please respond via return email or feel free to call us on 0800 026 0275, quoting your reference number which is stated above.
Yours sincerely,
Catherine Douglas
Customer Service Manager
My Ampera Specialist

Thanks. That's great to know, and thank you for your time.

.....(later...)

Hello.

Thank you for your previous correspondence regarding warranty coverage on the Ampera.

If I may ask to clarify one matter, and raise a second on a different matter;-

1) You have said the electric power train warranty covers "Auxiliary fluids pump controller & 3 phase cables". I'd like to clarify if this means it covers the Auxiliary fluids pump itself. i.e. does it mean;-
"Auxiliary fluids pump, controller & 3 phase cables"
or
"The controller of the Auxiliary fluids pump, & 3 phase cables"

2) I would like to understand what happens when you put on winter tyres, as I usually run such tyres, but if they have no TPMS sensors. I note that several Vauxhall models with TPMS do not require TPMS sensors in a set of winter tyres, and if the car detects no sensors on any of the wheels it does not give an error signal but simply goes blank, or shows a signal 'winter tyres fitted'. What does the Ampera do if you fit it with a set of wheels that have no TPMS sensors in any of the wheels? Does it function like other Vauxhall models and show 'blanks' for pressure, or does it show an error?

Thank you for looks at these questions for me and any clarifications you can provide.

Best regards,

Service Request Number: 489214-913464397
Date: 24th March 2015

Dear Mr Bradley

I write further to our previous contact.

I have forwarded your queries onto our Product Team who have provided me with the following information:

The Auxiliary fluid pump, auxiliary fluid controller and 3 phase cables are all included within the 8 year warranty.

In regards fitting winter tyres if you are just changing the tyres then the system will auto learn, once the vehicle is driven for at least 9 miles above 25mph.

If wheels/tyres are fitted without TPMS sensors the message “winter mode” will appear approximately 20 times and then disappear, the pressure display will show only dashes as info, there is no pressure info from the sensors.

I hope I have answered your questions.

Should you require any further assistance, please respond via return email or call us on 0800 026 0275, quoting your reference number which is stated above.

Yours sincerely,

Catherine Douglas
Customer Service Manager
My Ampera Specialist

Thank you for your previous correspondences in regards supporting my enquiries about warranty coverage. It has all been very helpful.

I regret I am having some difficulty in finalising my decision whether to go ahead with the additional (non-HV components) warranty cover. In part it is because of the high prices of the routine servicing of the 'normal' parts of the car to keep the warranty active.

For example, I have been quoted 0.5 hrs labour for the replacement of the cabin filter in my Ampera. Is this the correct hourly rate for this operation, and if so, why is it listed as taking so long?

Because of these elevated prices, with some regret I am therefore contemplating *NOT* continuing having a routine Vauxhall standard service. If I were to decide not to have my Ampera remain under dealer servicing, what would I need to do to maintain the 100,000 mile warranty on the high voltage components? I seem to recall there is a smaller inspection that can be requested to be done, rather than the full services. Is that correct?

Sincerely,

Service Request Number: 489214-913464397
Date: 20 April 2015

Dear Mr Donald

I write further to your previous contact with us regarding the Vauxhall Ampera.

With regards to the servicing that is required, I have spoken with our Technical Team who have advised that only the high voltage parts have to be serviced by an Ampera Specialist Dealer to keep the warranty going, the rest of the vehicle could be serviced outside of the dealer network.

I hope this answers your query. If I can be of any further assistance, please respond via return email or call us on 0800 026 0275, quoting your case reference number which is stated above.

Yours sincerely,

Catherine Douglas
My Ampera Specialist
Vauxhall Customer Care

See less See more

Reactions: 5

donald

· #56 · Nov 2, 2017

There used to be a special email [email protected] but I think that stopped working and all Ampera enquiries now go to general enquiries.

donald

· #60 · Nov 3, 2017

I gave up with Vauxhall, as I have just about given up on humanity.

Where are all the logical sensible people I grew up with that could perform reasonably competent logical processes? Did they really all move to the US? I do realise there was a 'brain drain' in the 90's recession, but didn't realise how deep that went!

It is covered, but I agree that if you are facing this much problem in the context, then pass it to the people that supplied the car.

I'd be interested to know what possible response they could have given when you gave them my case number. Happy to get involved if you like and give them some grief, just PM me if you want and if you have not yet simply given up on the idea.

Reactions: 1

donald

· #67 · Nov 3, 2017

Friends Electric said:
They got quite shirty with me and said they are not interested in other owners cars.

This is Vauxhall getting shirty?

Seriously, PM me (if you want to mention your case, that is) and I will phone them up. Whatever you do, they are wasting my time if they send me information that I then take time disseminating to people to see, only for them to deny it.

It's a seriously disgraceful episode and either PSA need to stamp on Vauxhall, or if they don't then we can presume they bought them just to close them down (like BMW tried to do with Rover).

donald

· #68 · Nov 3, 2017

I've just been chewing on this nugget over for the last few minutes and actually I am really a bit furious over it.

I am going to put in a formal complaint to OLEV and request that they claw back from Vauxhall the plug in grant.

In your case @Friends Electric your 2013 Ampera is clearly less than 5 years old. Yet it is a condition of the OLEV grant;-

3.6 Battery performance
Vehicles must have:

.... a minimum 5-year warranty on the .... drive train as standard

I'll PM you to see if you would want to get involved in that complaint, but Vauxhall have damaged your experience of the car, they have damaged mine, they have damaged the experience others have had, and OLEV, who appear to be technically incompetent at administering the grant system and the technicalities around it, needs a rocket stuck where the sun-don't-shine.

See less See more

Reactions: 3

donald

· #74 · Nov 7, 2017

So it's really a bit beyond my actual legal interest any more, as I no longer have ownership of an Ampera, however I am sufficiently fuming to act for 'us', seeing as I had the original email exchange.

Please can you all say 'aye' here, if you are happy for me to PM you to email me your name, car reg and VIN, I will then add those details as an 'interest group' to an email to OLEV demanding that they act to force Vauxhall to confirm the extent of the warrant and stop denying it, or to ask them what the legal situation is, as a grant was given on the basis of a long-term drivetrain warranty.

This can apply to any Ampera owner, it is for all of you to get confirmation of what Vauxhall is meant to deliver on its warranty.

It's an ugly way to do it, because there will be little good will from Vauxhall. But there again, there isn't anyway.....

Reactions: 1

donald

· #78 · Nov 7, 2017 (Edited)

Jeffrey Cooper said:
I think everyone needs to check the small print - the new car came, for the first owner, with the 100000 mile lifetime warranty - which needed the service history to be valid, and covered the majority of the car; but the battery came with its own 8 year warranty (actually the leaflet doesn't state 100K miles interestingly) that stays with the vehicle (ie not just the first owner), and is valid even without a service history (other than the 5th year coolant change) because nothing in the service function actually impacts the battery and could cause a failure. I'm not sure where we all got the idea that the whole electric drive chain is covered, even I thought that for a while!

...Because it IS covered.....

Did you not read my post #54?

All the high voltage parts are covered.

You can't think of letting a Halford's spanner-spinner loose on high voltage gear....

The Voltec Warranty

In addition to the Bumper-to-Bumper Coverage, General Motors will warrant certain Voltec components for each Chevrolet Volt (hereafter referred to as Voltec) for 8 years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first from the original in-service date of the vehicle, against warrantable repairs to the specific Voltec components of the vehicle. For complete details, refer to your Warranty and Owner Assistance Information booklet.

For Chevrolet Volt owners requiring more comprehensive coverage than that provided under this Voltec warranty, a GM Protection Plan may be available. See your Chevrolet dealer for more details.

In addition to the initial owner of the vehicle, the coverage described in this Chevrolet Volt, Bolt EV, and Malibu Hybrid warranty is transferrable at no cost to any subsequent person(s) who assumes ownership of the vehicle within the 8 years or 100,000 miles (160,000 kilometers) term. No deductibles are associated with this warranty.

Warranty Coverage: Cars, Trucks, SUVs, Vans | Chevrolet

See less See more

donald

· #84 · Nov 7, 2017

Jeffrey Cooper said:
Yes I had read it, and it was your post then that led me to believe about all Voltec parts - My only problem is that those emails you received from the lady may have been referring to the 8 year 100K first owner warranty possibly (they dont mention it, but neither do they discount it ?). if you look at the sales leaflets they specifically mention the "ampera battery" having its own warranty - the three year I guess would have been any warranty able to be passed on to a second owner etc.

and maybe the chevrolet volt had a different warranty to the ampera ?

I have amended post #54 with the original email, addition being in red text. That should cover your query.

Reactions: 1

donald

· #91 · Nov 7, 2017

OK, guys, that is probably enough to make an 'interest group' with sufficient momentum.

I am getting PMs already so if you can please just PM me your email address for now and I will make a group contact list and then we can sort details that way. We'll have to get 'personal' if we want to make it stick, postal addresses aren't necessary in this day and age but I will need to send your email address to OLEV if they are going to have confidence with the 'undersigned' contact list we give them.

So if you want to remain a completely anonymous person from everyone else on this forum then don't feel pressured to join in.

Reactions: 1

1 - 20 of 134 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.