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Never seen prices that good! Feels like I need a few more PV panels to take full advantage though. Have to get the calculator out to see if economy 7 route will pay..
 

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Not seen "The PowerStor" (TM) before, looks worth a look compared to UK based PowerVault, and the big name big money Tesla PowerWall 2, etc.
 

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I like that The PowerStor prices from this site are all listed openly, e.g. the PowerStor system with a double PylonTech US2000B battery for 4.8kWh in total costs £3199 installed including VAT. The tech specs say its a "LFP (lithium iron phosphate) cell".

For reference, that's almost the exact same price that PowerVault quoted me for their slightly smaller 4kWh Lead Acid Tubular Gel Powervault G200 (while their Lithium-ion version costs over £1000 more). Annoyingly you have to ask them for quotes.

These prices were at 20% VAT, but apparently if you buy a PowerVault battery as part of a new solar PV installation then its only 5% VAT - which is quite a saving if you have the funds... presumably the same thing would apply to other battery brands too.
 

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Another firm I'd been looking at also offers a double PylonTech battery, although they report it at only 4kWh usable - again its ask for a quote to see the prices:

Introducing the Pylontech Solar Battery

Datasheet:

https://www.in2gr8tedsolutions.co.uk/datasheet/pylontech-zte-lithium-datasheet.pdf
http://www.solaxpower.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/Pylontech_US2000B_cn.pdf

That one is made by SolaX Power, which in turn seem to have an even newer version available (although not necessarily in the UK yet), looks more like a Tesla Powerwall in its proportions:

SolaX Battery | SolaX Power
http://www.solaxpower.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/SolaX-Battery-Datasheet_cn.pdf
 

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Thanks Henry for the 'plug' - you're quick off the mark as we only launched PowerBanx™ (previously PowerStor™) last week.

Never seen prices that good!
We think there is a market for this kind of product at a fair price. Like solar, most battery systems have a 4 figure markup so we've simply chopped that right down to get to an attractive price.


Feels like I need a few more PV panels to take full advantage though. Have to get the calculator out to see if economy 7 route will pay..
As a small business, we are able to put together the kind of system we'd like ourselves. Our CEO, Jason, installed a system in his house recently and I'm planning to do the same myself soon. A key part of that is we are keen to provide a product that suits EV owners who usually have Economy 7 and often also have solar just like us. This is one of the first products in the UK market that targets Eco 7 (though I've heard it may come soon to the Tesla Powerwall). Also it's highly modular (any size from 2.4kWh to 19.2kWh in steps of 2.4kWh). Expanding it is easy - the homeowner can do it - so you can buy a basic system now and just add extra batteries as and when you want, e.g. one per year.

The sizing is a very interesting question. Simply put, if you're just using solar then you want the smallest battery that will take your excess solar most of the year. However, with Eco 7 you want the biggest battery you can afford since all the batteries can be filled with half price electricity and so save you money - at least up to the maximum that your house uses in a day or two. We have created some models to calculate the best size for a range of general households, but can also tailor this if you know exactly what you use.


I like that The PowerBanx prices from this site are all listed openly, e.g. the PowerBanx system with a double PylonTech US2000B battery for 4.8kWh in total costs £3199 installed including VAT. The tech specs say its a "LFP (lithium iron phosphate) cell".

For reference, that's almost the exact same price that PowerVault quoted me for their slightly smaller 4kWh Lead Acid Tubular Gel Powervault G200 (while their Lithium-ion version costs over £1000 more). Annoyingly you have to ask them for quotes.
Thanks - yes, it annoys me how you can spend ages on the Internet looking at different sites and never actually get a price. We try to always show the price (and I think we were the first site to always include battery cost inclusive in our ZOE prices for example). In this case all our PowerBanx prices include 20% VAT and installation. It's funny how often the price is "plus installation" and that can even be 4 figures.


These prices were at 20% VAT, but apparently if you buy a PowerVault battery as part of a new solar PV installation then its only 5% VAT - which is quite a saving if you have the funds... presumably the same thing would apply to other battery brands too.
Exactly so - all PowerBanx type systems have 20% VAT when bought separately, but if you include them as part of a solar installation then the VAT drops to 5%. Our prices show 20% VAT since our primary market is Economy 7 use or Economy 7 + solar retrofit, but later we may move into offering solar installs (in which case we'll also show the prices with 5% VAT).
 

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When we launched PowerBanx our expectation was that people would be interested mostly for the money saving - and let's be honest, it's not a huge moneyspinner when electricity is only, say, 10p per kWh. It's going to have a similar time to pay off as a solar array, say 7-12 years.

However, it can also work as a home backup system in case of a power cut and the feedback we're getting is that that is really of interest to a lot of people - more than we expected. Perhaps people don't trust the grid to work as well over the next decade as they have in the past.

Anyway, although these systems don't do backup 'out of the box' it can be added relatively easily. We currently have two options:
1. Add a single socket to the PowerBanx system - example price £50. This would allow you to charge your phone, led torches, that sort of thing. If you were creative you could maybe stretch an extension lead to your fridge.
2. Add an additional circuit to your house that stays live during a power cut - example price £500. This could power your fridge and freezers, and a few led floor lamps. It could probably also include your cooker (mine's gas, but won't work without electricity) and central heating (same). Interestingly, what people also put at the top of their list is the router - particularly now so many systems around the house may need an internet connection to work (e.g. intruder systems, door access systems, etc.).

I'd be interested in some feedback on these options.
 

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Interesting thoughts Trevor. Since you asked for feedback:

A single emergency low current socket for charging a mobile or laptop sounds handy. Our router is by the switchboard anyway, so that could run off it easily.

In terms of keeping mains circuits live, I'd want emergency power to run the gas boiler for heat and hot water. Likewise a gas hob control system if we get one. Keeping the fridge going would be a bonus.

A few years back I'd have included powering our wireless phone system on the wish list, but we rarely use it. That reminds me I should replace it with a really basic phone which is self powered via the phone line (anything wireless etc needs mains power), in case of emergencies.

But touch wood, the mains supply at this house has been pretty good. Much better than some places I have lived. Perhaps a couple of outages for engineering work a year, usually with advance warning. So for now, I am not in the market for emergency power.
 

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When we launched PowerStor our expectation was that people would be interested mostly for the money saving - and let's be honest, it's not a huge moneyspinner when electricity is only, say, 10p per kWh. It's going to have a similar time to pay off as a solar array, say 7-12 years.

However, it can also work as a home backup system in case of a power cut and the feedback we're getting is that that is really of interest to a lot of people - more than we expected. Perhaps people don't trust the grid to work as well over the next decade as they have in the past.

Anyway, although these systems don't do backup 'out of the box' it can be added relatively easily. We currently have two options:
1. Add a single socket to the PowerStor system - example price £50. This would allow you to charge your phone, led torches, that sort of thing. If you were creative you could maybe stretch an extension lead to your fridge.
2. Add an additional circuit to your house that stays live during a power cut - example price £500. This could power your fridge and freezers, and a few led floor lamps. It could probably also include your cooker (mine's gas, but won't work without electricity) and central heating (same). Interestingly, what people also put at the top of their list is the router - particularly now so many systems around the house may need an internet connection to work (e.g. intruder systems, door access systems, etc.).

I'd be interested in some feedback on these options.
What's the power of the Inverter? A few of your competktors only do a few hundred watts!...

Sent from my SM-N950F using Tapatalk
 

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Actually, assuming all LED lighting, would it be realistic to include all the house lighting circuits on the backup supply?
Nice idea - if you can estimate the number and wattage of lights I'm sure we can work it out.


What's the power of the Inverter? A few of your competktors only do a few hundred watts!...
The power of the inverter is 3kVA (so about 2400W if we assume the home has a power factor of 0.8). So the power is pretty generous, but of course if you used most of that you would need a battery for every hour of backup you wanted. More typical, I suspect, is that you'll have a draw of about 500W and will get 4 hours backup from a small PowerBanx and 8 hours from a big one, double that if you're happy with 250W, and so on.
 

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A few questions:
Any plans to lease the PowerStor in the future?
Any plans to offer Solar Car ports? Does the PowerStor have to be within the fabric of the building?
Will it work ok with a 3-phase supply?
 

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A few questions:
Any plans to lease the PowerBanx in the future?
Any plans to offer Solar Car ports? Does the PowerBanx have to be within the fabric of the building?
Will it work ok with a 3-phase supply?
We certainly would like to offer lease options, but can't do so just yet. Same for solar car ports.

This model isn't intended for 3-phase but there are other models available specifically for that - currently we're concentrating on launching the 1 phase model.

The PowerBanx does have to be within the fabric of the building - it's not designed to be weather proof. Specifically, to make it so modular and user configurable we mount the batteries in a 19inch server rack. It's therefore easy to slot in a new battery - you can have between 1 and 8 batteries without any other changes to the system (assuming you chose a big enough enclosure at the start). The server enclosure means it can't go outside, but would be fine in a loft, as shown, or a garage (note, this one has the old PowerStor label):



PowerBanx Home Energy Storage
 

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That's a really interesting product. You suggest that we shouldn't be getting a battery bigger than the daily kWh generated in winter, but in December (and this January) we probably only average 1.5kWh generated. In the summer it's obviously a lot more (June last year was 490kWh => 16.3 kWh). I guess that means that without E7 this is not going to be used enough in winter to be worthwhile.
If I understand the answer to Mike, the maximum power output from this system would be ~3kW - does that mean that to charge an EV at 7kW we would be pulling half the power from the battery and half from the grid?
 

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That's a really interesting product. You suggest that we shouldn't be getting a battery bigger than the daily kWh generated in winter, but in December (and this January) we probably only average 1.5kWh generated. In the summer it's obviously a lot more (June last year was 490kWh => 16.3 kWh). I guess that means that without E7 this is not going to be used enough in winter to be worthwhile.
That's our current approach for just solar, have just a single battery. Any more and you won't be able to charge them much in the depth of winter and you're likely to see them deteriorate as they'll sit mostly empty. Instead we would recommend solar plus Economy 7 - and we expect most of our EV customer base to be using Eco 7 anyway. Then you can have a much bigger battery system - you charge it from solar in the summer and solar + Eco 7 (realistically mostly Eco 7) in the winter.


If I understand the answer to Mike, the maximum power output from this system would be ~3kW - does that mean that to charge an EV at 7kW we would be pulling half the power from the battery and half from the grid?
Yes. If you had solar you would ideally set your car to charge at low power to match the inverter output (I know my i3 can do this) or you would use a granny cable. If you don't have solar then you would charge your car from Eco 7 at night in parallel with but independently of the battery.
 

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Trevor, I'm looking at a PV install on a barn roof. house is about 100 mtrs away, where would the battery be best located; house or barn?
 

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Trevor, I'm looking at a PV install on a barn roof. house is about 100 mtrs away, where would the battery be best located; house or barn?
The simple answer is in the house, close to the main consumer unit. This is because it needs a sensor on your grid connection (as well as one on your incoming solar supply) so it knows when to charge and discharge.

Having a separated solar PV installation does make things more complicated. There is potentially a problem if the barn itself uses significant power (e.g. it contains a big Bitcoin mining rig to make yourself rich) since it may appear to the system that your solar supply is actually consuming electricity at night.

Where is your FIT meter, how is the solar connected to your consumer unit, and is there a significant load on your solar before it gets to the house?
 

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Many systems like this are using a variety of Cots component this one is very similar to the Solax system
Midsummer Wholesale


Including using the same battery supplier. I have read up on a few similar because there loads of differing storage systems coming to the market at the moment some look bloody hideous!

Warranties vary depending on components typically the inverter could have the shortest in the cheapest system
Efficiency is also important so to is remote connectivity and monitoring.

I reminds of the days of PC supplier sprouting up all over the shop throwing a multitude of components in a box and calling it the Mega Falcon 686X etc!
I think I bought a 486DX processor off some bloke in a pub for silly money donkeys years ago and golly was it quick............but the render we did for the Channel 4 program on the Turin shroud recovered the costs and then some! anyway back on topic.

@ circa 13+p per KW TCO there is debatable financial benefit to these types of system yet.

The uncertainly of batteries failing if not sized to the PV array correctly (which could be interpreted as a warranty 'get out' clause to me) might also put people off, Which sadly means people will end up buying smaller systems where the TCO will be a lot higher.

This 'get out' disclaimer is not restricted to these Hybrid systems even the market leaders like Sonnen give similar warnings and I bet Tesla have similar in the small print.

Sonnen install instructions:

"Damage to battery modules due to deep-discharge!
Without a connection to the public electrical mains, the battery modules may be
damaged due to being deep-discharged.
Do not disconnect the storage system from the public electrical mains for an
extended period of time."

I wonder what the definition of an "extended period of time" is ?

So common sense says charge this sort of system where clearly the batteries are at risk properly i.e via Solar when available and cheaper rate i.e Tide type tariff, Economy 7 etc at night, the latter more so in the winter.

The pylon batteries assuming any of these outfits exist in 5 let alone 10 years are supposedly warranted at 6000 cycles for a loss of 20% capacity. that's 16 years and should still be holding 80% charge - a full cycle 0-100% daily

Right now for me the Sonnen 8.8 offers a full 10 year warranty on everything, is rated at 10,000 cycles and installed this works out (for my quote) at around 11p per KW TCO which is still too much to make it worthwhile right now. I would rather fit a 10KW turbine.

https://www.cclcomponents.com/sonnenbatterie-eco-8-8-8kw-battery-storage-system-with-4x-2kw-battery-module-white

One eye candy thing which may not matter to everyone, looks
The Sonnen like the Tesla are also very pretty systems with terrific connectivity 'toys'.
If you are into pissing off the Jones that matters!

Personally I am not into seeing system cobbled in standard industry IT or Comms racks that are better suited to Server Switch and UPS installs and that is what the Pylon looks like.
 

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Many systems like this are using a variety of Cots components, this one is very similar to the Solax system
Midsummer Wholesale


Including using the same battery supplier. I have read up on a few similar because there loads of differing storage systems coming to the market at the moment some look bloody hideous!

Warranties vary depending on components typically the inverter could have the shortest in the cheapest systems.
Efficiency is also important so too is remote connectivity and monitoring.

This 'new frontier' reminds of the days of PC supplier sprouting up all over the shop throwing a multitude of components in a box and calling it the "Mega Falcon 686DX" etc! evey PC had a billion options!

I think I bought a 486DX processor off some bloke in a pub for silly money donkeys years ago and golly was it quick then............the render we did for the Channel 4 program on the Turin shroud recovered the costs and then some! anyway back on topic.

@ circa 13+p per KW TCO there is debatable financial benefit to these types of system yet.

The uncertainly of batteries failing if not sized to the PV array correctly (which could be interpreted as a warranty 'get out' clause to me) might also put people off, Which sadly means people will end up buying smaller systems where the TCO will be a lot higher.

This 'get out' disclaimer is not restricted to these Hybrid systems even the market leaders like Sonnen give similar warnings and I bet Tesla have similar in the small print.

From the Sonnen install instructions:

"Damage to battery modules due to deep-discharge!
Without a connection to the public electrical mains, the battery modules may be
damaged due to being deep-discharged.
Do not disconnect the storage system from the public electrical mains for an
extended period of time."

I wonder what the definition of an "extended period of time" is ?

So common sense says charge this sort of system where clearly the batteries are at risk properly i.e via Solar when available and cheaper rate i.e Tide type tariff, Economy 7 etc at night, the latter more so in the winter.

The pylon batteries assuming any of these outfits exist in 5 let alone 10 years are supposedly warranted at 6000 cycles for a loss of 20% capacity. that's 16 years and should still be holding 80% charge - a full cycle 0-100% daily

Right now for me the Sonnen 8.8 offers a full 10 year warranty on everything, is rated at 10,000 cycles and installed this works out (for my quote) at around 11p per KW TCO which is still too much to make it worthwhile right now. I would rather fit a 10KW turbine.

https://www.cclcomponents.com/sonnenbatterie-eco-8-8-8kw-battery-storage-system-with-4x-2kw-battery-module-white

One eye candy thing which may not matter to everyone, looks
The Sonnen like the Tesla are also very pretty systems with terrific connectivity 'toys'.
If you are into pissing off the Jones that matters!

Personally I am not into seeing system cobbled in standard industry IT or Comms racks that are better suited to Server Switch and UPS installs and that is what the Pylon looks like.
 
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