It probably doesn't feel like it if you have just bought an ID3 but if the problem occurs with multiple charger brands that is a good thing.A later post says...
We are already receiving reports of posts on the ID3 Facebook page that people are having to unplug their car and plug it back in again to charge on Economy 7 tariffs - that's with other makes of charger, nothing to do with zappi!
So basically VW are not adhering to standards. They will need to get it fixed.
There has been constant dialogue from end users, myenergi back to VW via dealers and other means.Anyone know if this issue has been fixed yet? My ID3 delivery is looming and I rather fancied a Zappi.
Yes - that is correct.Woodulike wrote: ↑
12:28 AM - 16 days ago
I had an email back on Friday afternoon saying my email was passed onto the technical team who are aware of the issue with the Zappi and developments are in progress.
It then went on to say that myenergi would be in contact when the problem had been resolved. It made it sound like the Zappi needed the changes. @myenergi_Dr_Chris. I would like to go back to them saying the Zappi isn't at fault and that I expect them to update me when there's a software update for my car.
Would I be correct in saying that?
It might be easier to quote the article in full:
Interesting. That was dated September. Presumably no progress yet.It might be easier to quote the article in full:
Important information regarding the new ID3 as well as e-Golf and e-Up
Thanks to one of our customers, we have had the opportunity to carry out extensive tests on the new VW ID3.
The majority of the tests worked well however there are two important issues that we have identified.
It appears that VW expect the ID3 to be connected to a "dumb" charger.
- If the ID3 does not receive a start charge message from the EV charge point within 30 seconds of being plugged in, then a red led appears next to the charge port and the EV won't wake up when the charger (ie zappi) tries to start the charge. This can be overcome by setting the "Plug-In Charge" option on the zappi
- More worrying, if the charge is interrupted for ~3 minutes then the ID3 may fall asleep and cannot be woken again unless a) you press the key fob to wake the car up b) you open one of the front doors or c) you leave the drivers door open
Unfortunately this means that, for the time being, the ECO+ mode cannot be used reliably with the ID3.
The ECO mode works perfectly and still offer zappi owners with an ID3 the opportunity to capture excess generation whilst continuously charging the at a low rate. This will also ensure that the boost timers work as programmed.
In "real life" testing our customer reports that
We have observed similar problems with the e-GOlf and e-Up, although the results of our testing were less conclusive.
- Timed Boost works OK overnight but I always start with a "clean charge" - unplugging the car and then plugging it back in again once the PV has stopped generating
- ECO+ works OK but after a few charge cycles the ID3 won't wake up again
As you would expect we are trying hard to make contact with the right department in VW. This problem with smart charging potentially causes issues with the OLEV requirements for smart charging of new EV's and also the rules in Germany (VDE 4100) which allow the grid operator to interrupt an EV charge. It also means that the VW EV's do not comply with the Standard IEC61851-1 which is the standard for AC charging.
If you own a VW EV please help us by raising this issue with your VW dealer and by posting on the VW forums.
I don't expect any progress to be honest. I don't see VW moving on their mass production car, for a small, limited problem with an unknown charger.Until the full software is released by VW there won't be any progress.
What are the standards, any links anywhere?The problem is not only with the Zappi but with all smart chargers. It's not an insignificant issue with only minor consequences. It prevents people from utilising time of use electricity tariffs or any method of stop-start charging. It's a clear divergence from the standards.
So, as I suspected it all sounds quite complex!See here;
J1772A: SAE Electric Vehicle and Plug in Hybrid Electric Vehicle Conductive Charge Coupler - SAE International
where the latest will cost you $83.
I have an older version, I believe the fundamentals remain the same, acc to descriptions in wikipedia etc.
The J1772 standard covers the state-transitions, i.e. what happens to the signals & voltages etc when things happen, like plugging in, car decides to start a charge, some problem happens at either end, etc.
While I haven't been following the Zappi issues in detail, it sounds to me that the ID.3 goes to sleep after a period of inactivity, and fails to wake up, or something like that?
If the EVSE changes the signals from its end, it expects the car to be alert & respond. Within typically 5 seconds. The main thing I'd expect Zappi to be doing is cut the square wave signal off to tell the car "Zero Amps available right now". Whether the car reacts by signalling "End of Charge" (stops drawing current, opens it's own contactor & disengages the resistor (changes DC voltage on CP wire), i.e. saying "you can unplug now"), or whether it sits there paused, with contactors closed, ready to take more current, I don't know. Whichever the car does, I'd expect the Zappi to be happy, as it's been designed with exactly this in mind.
EVSEs couldn't really care less about the voltage they see on CP line, except when that resistor is removed (car stopped the charge) they'll signal 0 Amps, and open their own contactor, and when that resistor is engaged they'll check the cable max capacity, close their own contactors, & signal whaver amps they have available. They don't go to sleep on the job. And during a solar session with periods of 0 Amps taken by the car, it's no skin off their nose whether the car does a full shutdown, or not.
I tested out what my Ampera does, if I cut the "Current Available" square wave from my Viridian Controller. I simply set the control resistor on it to "0A to be signalled to EV" setting, to see how Ampy behaved when "paused". Ampy decided this meant "End of Charging has been indicated by EVSE" which is actually wrong. Green charging LED on dash went out. Then, when I altered the resistor to say "Amps now available to charge with" Ampy decided "A whole new charging session has started, let's get going" and did just this, with contactors clunking on etc.
So it worked, with one slight snag: Ampera gives a double-beep on the main horn when a charge starts!!! Just what you need, to keep waking up the neigbours having gentle snooze on sunny-ish afternoon. Fix was to devise a circuit to de-power the horn in this scenario.
The Ampera should, I think, when "0 Amps" was signalled, have opened the contactors at its end, as this is a constant current-drain that's wasteful. And the moment "Amps available" was signalled, it's then free to close the contactors and start a charge, without any horn-beeping. But clearly it has to stay awake monitoring the CP line at all times while the charging cable is plugged in. Sounds like it's falling asleep on the job though... not expected to happen with German workers, surely?