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Discussion Starter #1
I'm looking at the new 50 kWh PSA group offerings for the Vauxhall Corsa-e, Peugeot e-208 & e-2008GT plus the DS 3 Crossback E-Tense in top level trims, all have good range & tech thanks to the same underpinnings..
The prices after the grant I've had on CarWow are around £26k for the Corsa Elite, £28k for Peugeot e-208 GT, £30k for DS3 E-Tense ( all roughly the same dimensions & boot space ) The slightly bigger Peugeot 2008 GT is over £37k though....
Three of them are very small, the e-2008 is slightly bigger but at £37K is in e-nero/soul/kona 64kWh territory & close to Tesla model 3 price :oops: The Corsa is best value but I just can't see many people paying these sort of prices... Even more so with just a standard 3yr/60,000 mile warrantee compared to Renaults new 5yr, Hyundai 5yr & MG / Kia 7yr ones...
Your thoughts please :giggle:
R..
 

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The Vauxhall brand will be dead in 18 months, and it is unlikely to be replaced by Opel in the UK, so I would avoid the Corsa. I can't see many paying for the Peugeot / Citroen twins except as leases - how most of their ICE are sold currently, and then only to a different clientele to their current one which are generally very conservative.
Personally I can't see them doing well against the VAG triplets despite their smaller batteries. The VAG clientele are much less conservative and more open to outright purchase and accepting high costs for perceived quality.
 

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Not seen the Corsa yet but had a look at the e-208. The mid range trim (Alure?) seemed a good spec. I think dealers are getting demonstrators next week. You obviously need to sit in one and drive it. I am not convinced by the small steering wheel and how you need to position it to see the dials. Overall it felt quite compact inside. But it is one of the best looking EVs on the market and quality seems good. There have been criticisms in the motoring press about ride quality which I want to check out on a test drive.
In terms of value for money the MG is worth a look but the range is not as good. As to whether people will pay the advertised prices, I guess we will have to wait and see.
 

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Hardly anyone will buy these as a cash payment. Pretty much all will be company cars, lease or pcps.
You would have to be completely nuts to buy a small ev at that money in this climate unless you either want to run it into the ground or sell it on before the prices tank.
Remember the Skoda and Seat can be had for sub £20k list (before any incentives/discounts) so you've got to really want that extra seat to take the plunge on another £7k - especially when there are cars like the MG and Zoe which won't be a lot over £20k by the time you see discounts.
Then there is the imminent id3 and a string of others - all of which could be close to that close to £30k bracket which gives them a lot of competition.
There is also the supply and demand question. At the moment supply is very constrained vs demand so prices are held artificially high. At some point that will end - either by there being enough ev to go around or by range extenders or plug ins getting enough range to work as evs anyway. Once that happens a small French hatch is a small French hatch as it hasn't got its trump card of being electric anymore.
How much are 3-4yr old Corsas again?
 

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Once that happens a small French hatch is a small French hatch as it hasn't got its trump card of being electric anymore.
How much are 3-4yr old Corsas again?
You can rely on the motoring press to fawn over them initially, but after 3 - 4 years admit that the originals were flawed but the latest ones much better. A continuous cycle. The values will have tanked as the lease cars will need selling at the end of their leases and I cannot see much demand for them at that point at their book value which is based on an inflated initial price and current high residuals which are a one-off.
 

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You can rely on the motoring press to fawn over them initially, but after 3 - 4 years admit that the originals were flawed but the latest ones much better. A continuous cycle. The values will have tanked as the lease cars will need selling at the end of their leases and I cannot see much demand for them at that point at their book value which is based on an inflated initial price and current high residuals which are a one-off.
Another point is that EU7 and 8 aren't all that far out - next year for full compliance and 2023(?) for the next so there are going to be a lot more evs and even more serious plug ins offered. Its hard to think the electric Mii/etc will increase in price and at the moment there is a £10k step from a Citigo to an e-208. It simply can't hold a £27k list price in the market even now - much less in three years time where it will be heavily discounted which in turn will force down the 2nd hand prices of the older ones.
Sounds like a very expensive way to save a few quid on fuel at the moment which is a shame since I think we all want more uptake. Greed will hold it up for as long as the greedy can get away with it. In reality it's a £15k-£20k car.
 

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Just did a quick check on lease deals for the Peugeots & they were coming out at over £600 a month on a 3+23 deal for 8000 miles, that's crazy... I can get in a tesla for that...
Agreed - madness! I would "like" your post, but at those numbers ........ o_O o_O o_O o_O o_O o_O o_O o_O o_O
As I said before, their customers are generally conservative and will be hard to persuade to part with that much more than the £250 a month for a petrol version even with little or no fuel cost - £350/month for less than 700 miles would be amazingly poor mpg (around 10!).
 

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Just did a quick check on lease deals for the Peugeots & they were coming out at over £600 a month on a 3+23 deal for 8000 miles, that's crazy... I can get in a tesla for that...
So they are expecting to take £15,600 over the two years.Take out their margin and it looks like they're expecting it to lose £12,480 from a price which will be quite a way under the offer you got above.
In reality that £15,600 is most likely what they expect it to lose. Even at that I would say they are being a little optimistic.
 

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So 2 year old cars selling at around £12k? A bit closer, but 57% in the first two years - ouch!
Well it all depends on the market. If in two years we are still waiting for volume and models they make be more than that but if (as is widely speculated) there are a lot of plugins coming next year - a lot of which are less money or better cars - then its a very hard sell. I would say £12k-£15k at a couple of years old is about right in a couple of years as things stand. In a couple of years the 40kWh Zoe will be on the 2nd hand market in volume as will all the lease returns from the Corsa/E208 and all the rest. There will also be returns of the Kona, Niro and so on and model 3's only need to drop a small amount to bring them into contention.
Also if the Mii/etc are sub £20k new what can they hold in a couple of years? Yes they have smaller batteries but around town they are likely to be close enough on range that it makes little difference to buyers and it would be a brave person to bet against them better put together. They are also going to be easier to park, cheaper to insure, cheaper for tyres and such.
Yes they are in a category down from the e208/Zoe/etc but again unless that extra seat really matters people will cross shop and as it stands £10k more after discounts is a pretty hard sell. 2nd hand in a couple of years that gap will be much, much tighter and a sub £17k Citigo can't stay above £15k forever. That drags the rest down with it.
I may even go and buy one for the better half because even if she could only make use of it half the time it would probably save more fuel from her XC90 than its overall cost for a few years. Half her mileage (12k) at 25mpg would be £4320 of diesel in three years. The same at 4mi/kWh (she drives mostly in town) would be £630 of electricity at normal rate. Thats £3690 saved on fuel alone let alone tyres and such. The Citigo e or whatever its called starts at £16,995 which leaves £13,305 as its resale in three years to break even.
Even if it tanked all the way to £10k thats a brand new car under warranty with no mileage limits or other nonsense for £1100 quid a year. If it holds say £12k and offsets more than half her miles and some of mine it's paying me to have it. Sounds like a gamble I would be happy to take. Not so much £27k on the Pug.
 

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I think as battery capacities are now in more reasonable territory and thanks to legal/ecological advantages and fewer moving parts, EV depreciation will be much less than ICEs in the next three years. Even my eGolf with 85 miles range only lost £6k in three years, while the Corsa will benefit now it is based upon a PSA chassis not GM.
 

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I went looking at a Corsa at the local dealership just before Xmas. Their PCP numbers were horrifying!
This is why I crossed the site to the (same chain) Renault/Nissan dealership & ordered a Zoe 50.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
It's like they don't "really" want to sell em, iether that or they're really worried about re-sale price in a couple years which is why the PCP deals are so expensive...
 

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The price of the Zoe 50, e-208 and e- Corsa are all pretty similar. They have similar range / battery size. They are expensive compared to ICE versions but all BEVs are at present.
 

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The price of the Zoe 50, e-208 and e- Corsa are all pretty similar. They have similar range / battery size. They are expensive compared to ICE versions but all BEVs are at present.
The cash price may be similar, but the PCP pricing is wildly different. The Zoe came out around £60/month cheaper for me on a 4yr 12k mile PCP.
 

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That’s just a matter for negotiation and will be easier once all the new models in the same segment come out and start competing against each other. The Zoe is basically a facelift so not surprising that it is a lower pcp at this stage. They are also combatting the higher price they are charging by getting rid of the battery lease option.
 

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The cash price may be similar, but the PCP pricing is wildly different. The Zoe came out around £60/month cheaper for me on a 4yr 12k mile PCP.
Someone doing the sums is wondering what is going to happen to Vauxhall, in the coming years and likely pricing accordingly. Along with this given the parent group, will you be financially supporting your own products or the problem one from next door?
 

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The lease prices will tumble after a few months. Same with all new models. I think the corsa will end up being a right little bargain if the rest of their range is anything to go by (to lease at least). I sat in the ICE version the other day and was quite impressed.
 
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