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ENiro Charging
When there is an option available, is it AC or DC ? Book says DC charge should be minimised for battery life, are we talking 5% a year? Also what is City Type and Cruise Type? mentioned in book.
Newbie to this so any advice from seasoned public chargers appreciated
 

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I think it comes down to how much time you have on your hands and how much more range you need to get to your destination. Had my Niro EV for 3 whole weeks today so still figuring stuff out.

AC only adds about 15 miles to your range in an 30 minutes while DC adds around 100. Which one you use depends on how much range you need and how quickly you need it or how long you're willing to wait for it.

I'm using DC as a last resort mostly because 90% of my journeys are well under 230 miles. Used DC 3 times so far and only to try out different companies.

I also wasn't sure what they meant by city and cruise. From the context it initially sounded like the charge rate..e.g cruise type is a faster charger rate than city type. In the Soul manual the same terms seem to refer to battery size. City type is the 30kwh car and cruise is the 64kwh so perhaps in the case of the Niro they mean the plug in hybrid when they mention city type?
 

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2020 Kona EV, Red, 64kWh Premium SE (10.5kW OBC)
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The battery is always charged with DC, however when using an AC supply, the car's on-board AC-to-DC converter (aka rectifier or charger) is usually the limiting factor. Typically AC "Fast" charge points max out at around 44kW, although many are much lower than this. Most in-car AC-to-DC converters are limited to 7kW, 10.5kW or 22kW, although a few can manage the "full" 44kW. Most domestic (non-commercial) "Fast" chargers are only capable of 7kW, limited by the domestic power supply to the house, although 22kW can be achieved in a small number of cases.

When using a DC charge point, also called a "Rapid" charger, the on-board charger is bypassed and is replaced by whatever limitation the external charge point has. DC charger points tend to start at around the 50kW level, and the car is usually capable of 77kW or more, although to protect the battery, the car will usually start to limit the charge rate as the battery gets more charged and/or based upon battery temperature.

The six factors which cause most wear to the battery are:
  • the speed of charging: faster charging causes more wear, especially above around 20-30kW
  • the depth of discharging: going below 10-20% increases the amount of wear
  • the level you charge to: above 80% causes more wear
  • how long the battery spends at very high or low states of charge: even a few hours at 100% causes noticeable wear
  • the battery temperature (not the outside air temperature) during charging: too hot or too cold increases wear
  • the number of "cycles" of charging and discharging - both 80-70-80% and 80-20-80% count as one cycle.
Your handbook suggests DC charging should be minimised not because the DC itself is in any way "harmful", but because DC chargers tend to be capable of faster charging, thus increasing wear. I suspect the "cruise" vs "city" is a poor translation of "enroute" (Rapid) chargers and "destination" (Fast and granny) chargers
 

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Exactly, depends on where you going, how long you staying to which charger to use.

In general, use slow 7kw "destination" posts when stopped somewhere. When we stopped at Bridlington for an afternoon seaside port watching/looking around the town we used these type, 4 hours charge, nice 110 miles range boost.

However when driving home from Brid (190 or so miles) we didn't have range to get entire way home (we had 170 setting off), so topped up for 20 mins at an ecotricity on the a1 as it was working. We didn't fully charge as didn't need to as we wanted to arrive home with as little as possible as it's "cheaper" at home. However as the Ecotricity was on free vend, we probably stopped an additional 5 mins, as we had the time to spare -> as free electricity saves home bills.

I wouldn't worry about it except on longer trips. Remember on those it's NOT effecient use of your time to charge beyond 80% on DC anyhow -> our typical reccomendation is put a 2 stop strategy if you thinking about that. (The charger HALFS in speed at 80% and slows again at 90, so you talking same amount of time to get from 20-80% as from 80-100% roughly).

Our planning for the epic 1500 mile road trip we done was to just look at range of car in morning, and plan a charge for roughly when we had 40-50 miles left (which is about 20% on battery) - you soon realise the GOM range meter on the niro is VERY accurate, unless you drive beyond 70mph... Why 40-50 -> we have range for a backup charger if the one we visit is broken, and secondly, the car again charges FASTEST 20-80%, so we not wasting time waiting for the slower initial 0-20% charge.
 

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Slightly off topic. I know it takes longer to charge from 80 to 100 than it does from 20 to 80. Does that only apply to rapid chargers ? e.g. rapid chargers might drop from 50kw to 20kw when the car gets to 80%.
At home, charging at 7kw I don't think I've noticed it taking any longer to charge from 80 to 100 as it does from 60 to 80 but I'd need to do a proper test to be sure.
 

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Slightly off topic. I know it takes longer to charge from 80 to 100 than it does from 20 to 80. Does that only apply to rapid chargers ? e.g. rapid chargers might drop from 50kw to 20kw when the car gets to 80%.
At home, charging at 7kw I don't think I've noticed it taking any longer to charge from 80 to 100 as it does from 60 to 80 but I'd need to do a proper test to be sure.
Yes. AC charge rate slows down as the battery gets full, just the same as you'd notice with DC charging. Just with DC charging, the slow-down is more obvious between the difference of starting at 50kW or more, down to 3.3kW or so as it tails off.
 

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When there is an option available, is it AC or DC ?
Always use DC on an AC/DC rapid charger.

Slow charging at 7kW AC from an AC/DC rapid charger is considered poor etiquette. Using one to slow charge can inconvience others.




GeniePoint rapids have a £10 overstay fee to discourage using them as a 7kW (or 3.6kW) AC charger.
 

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Slow charging at 7kW AC from an AC/DC rapid charger is considered poor etiquette. Using one to slow charge can inconvience others.
Maybe, but some rapids allow use of the AC side without stopping the DC side from being used.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I think it comes down to how much time you have on your hands and how much more range you need to get to your destination. Had my Niro EV for 3 whole weeks today so still figuring stuff out.

AC only adds about 15 miles to your range in an 30 minutes while DC adds around 100. Which one you use depends on how much range you need and how quickly you need it or how long you're willing to wait for it.

I'm using DC as a last resort mostly because 90% of my journeys are well under 230 miles. Used DC 3 times so far and only to try out different companies.

I also wasn't sure what they meant by city and cruise. From the context it initially sounded like the charge rate..e.g cruise type is a faster charger rate than city type. In the Soul manual the same terms seem to refer to battery size. City type is the 30kwh car and cruise is the 64kwh so perhaps in the case of the Niro they mean the plug in hybrid when they mention city type?
I am still not entirely clear. City and Cruise seem vary vaugue terms to use.....why not simply say 30kwh and 64kwh.....makes more sense. My book is specific to ENiro nothing about hybrid here.
 

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I am still not entirely clear. City and Cruise seem vary vaugue terms to use.....why not simply say 30kwh and 64kwh.....makes more sense. My book is specific to ENiro nothing about hybrid here.
As someone else said earlier, it might just be a bad translate of destination and route charging. I wasn't too worried about the terms.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
What book says to minimize DC charging?

Greg
Page 16 of my the Owners manual , introducing the three options, AC, DC and Trickle Charger.

Specifically it says " Use of DC Charge should be minimised in order to prolong the high voltage battery life" Not really an issue for me doing 150miles a week, but for a very active traveller or commuter I imagine would be a bit of a concern.
 

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I found this in my manual:

If the HV battery is only charged to 80%, and you minimize the number of DC fast charging, you can keep the HV battery performance in optimal condition. (vs charging the HV battery to 100% an/or charging every drive cycle.)

Battery performance and durability can deteriorate if the DC charger is used constantly. Use of DC charge should be minimized in order to help prolong high voltage battery life.


So, I have the same thing. Well, I always charge at home with a L2 (too cheap to pay the DC rates!)

Greg
 

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I found this in my manual:

If the HV battery is only charged to 80%, and you minimize the number of DC fast charging, you can keep the HV battery performance in optimal condition. (vs charging the HV battery to 100% an/or charging every drive cycle.)

Battery performance and durability can deteriorate if the DC charger is used constantly. Use of DC charge should be minimized in order to help prolong high voltage battery life.


So, I have the same thing. Well, I always charge at home with a L2 (too cheap to pay the DC rates!)

Greg
It's not about being cheap. That's simply how it should be. DC chargers as a last resort. AC whenever you can especially at home. Think of it as doing those poor folk who can't charge at home a favour by freeing up DC space. You're not cheap. You're a nice guy. An altruist. A gentleman. :)
 
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