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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Why is not an EV considered "zero pollution" - after removing the
pollution generated by manufacturing the car.
If the car, for example, uses solar cell or hydroelectric generated power then it is producing zero pollution".
Except for some brake dust and granulated tire wear there is zero pollution produced.
Not everyone needs gasoline
- except the oil corporations would like you to believe otherwise..
 

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You have to question the motives and affiliations of the people who won't accept that. Lot's of folk have their own agendas. The amount of mileage just moving petrol and diesel around from refinery to pump often get's left out of the emissions equation for ICE cars.

In the UK adverts for EV say things like, zero emissions - on the road.

I usually tell people that I didn't buy an EV just to save the world. I bought one because the drive is a much superior experience than I ever had in an ICE and for a fraction of the cost. :)
 
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If the car, for example, uses solar cell or hydroelectric generated power
That's a big IF. If the generation mix isn't 100% renewables them obviously the car is being partly powered by coal or gas for example. So it depends where you live, etc.
 

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Why is not an EV considered "zero pollution" - after removing the
pollution generated by manufacturing the car.
If the car, for example, uses solar cell or hydroelectric generated power then it is producing zero pollution".
Except for some brake dust and granulated tire wear there is zero pollution produced.
Not everyone needs gasoline
- except the oil corporations would like you to believe otherwise..
EV is very far from zero pollution. It generates A LOT of pollution during manufacturing, and also quite a bit during charging (remember that electricity is not produced in your wall, even if it comes out of it) and some during use (you mentioned some, but there is more), a lot again at the end of it's life. It may be better than ICE, but very far from zero pollution. I think you have to consider every stage, not just the pollution it generates while you are driving your kids to school or yourself to work. Even solar panels are made out of something, not just got to my roof, so making those plus the rest of the solar power system also generated some pollution.

Zero pollution does NOT exist. It would mean you get something from nothing and that's just not possible.
 

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If the car, for example, uses solar cell or hydroelectric generated power then it is producing zero pollution".
That's a big IF. If the generation mix isn't 100% renewables them obviously the car is being partly powered by coal or gas for example. So it depends where you live, etc.
And then you have to consider whether you look at the average generation mix, or the marginal generation mix - if at the time you are charging your car 20% of the country's electricity comes from fossil fuels, but any extra electricity demand is being met 100% by burning more fossil fuels, should the carbon emission per mile that you drive be based on the 20% average mix, or on the 100% for the marginal mix?

But then, an EV gives almost zero particulate pollution into the streets where it is being driven.
 

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It generates A LOT of pollution during manufacturing,
The OP did say "after removing the pollution generated by manufacturing the car".
 
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And then you have to consider whether you look at the average generation mix, or the marginal generation mix - if at the time you are charging your car 20% of the country's electricity comes from fossil fuels, but any extra electricity demand is being met 100% by burning more fossil fuels, should the carbon emission per mile that you drive be based on the 20% average mix, or on the 100% for the marginal mix?

But then, an EV gives almost zero particulate pollution into the streets where it is being driven.
The site shows a graph of the energy mix for the UK for the last 13 years. Coal is on the way out dropping from 47.56% in 2006 to 0.69% in 2019. Gas was fairly constant from 29.98% (2006) to 28.18% (2019) the rest (less 4.45% from abroad) in 2019 at 66.68% was from none (air) polluting sources.

 

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Discussion Starter #9
EV is very far from zero pollution. It generates A LOT of pollution during manufacturing, and also quite a bit during charging (remember that electricity is not produced in your wall, even if it comes out of it) and some during use (you mentioned some, but there is more), a lot again at the end of it's life. It may be better than ICE, but very far from zero pollution. I think you have to consider every stage, not just the pollution it generates while you are driving your kids to school or yourself to work. Even solar panels are made out of something, not just got to my roof, so making those plus the rest of the solar power system also generated some pollution.

Zero pollution does NOT exist. It would mean you get something from nothing and that's just not possible.
Well you could add the clothes the driver is wearing as added pollution. Added examples of energy needed to produce items are limitless.
But "If the car, for example, uses solar cell or hydroelectric generated power then it is producing zero pollution". That is the question.
 

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Using this site you can see the mix live:

 

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But "If the car, for example, uses solar cell or hydroelectric generated power then it is producing zero pollution". That is the question.
The production of the solar cells or hydro plant will (currently) have produced pollution. Are you excluding that same as for the car?
A solar farm may cover ground that could grow trees, so may be increasing CO2 indirectly.
You need to be very, very specific about what the parameters of your question are if you want the answer you are looking for.
 

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The OP did say "after removing the pollution generated by manufacturing the car".
That's cheating
Manufacturing emissions are a big opaque question mark that could be pretty high or virtually negligible, depending on a number of factors. What's the composition of materials in the cells? How much energy capacity per kilogram of material? What's the energy source for the assembly plant, refineries and mining operations? How efficient are they? How efficient are the supply chain vehicles? How far do the materials travel to reach the end user? How much recycling happens? How much land and clean water is used? I don't know of a car company that publicly audits the impact of every stage of its supply chain for every vehicle, and different studies give CO2/kWh figures for the manufacturing phase that vary by more than an order of magnitude. Many of those factors apply to other aspects of car production too, and it's possible for an EV to have less environmental impact in the manufacturing phase than an ICEV. With the lack of specific data, it's like asking how long is a piece of string.

(While this wasn't the question, it's also arguable that manufacturing emissions are effectively irrelevant if you're buying a used car. You're not doing the world any favours by choosing the vehicle that'll be dirtier during your use.)

On the other hand, it's easy for the end-user to get a rough idea of the emissions for the 'fuel' that goes into the car, and there are things you can personally do to ensure it's produced cleanly. Which petrol or diesel can't be under any circumstances.
 

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You can tie yourself in knots with this stuff.

EVs are definitely less polluting overall.

Now about these log-burners......
 

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That's cheating but it is still not making it zero pollution.
I took the OP to read that he was talking about what happens when you drive the car. Not about the 'whole life' thing.

"Except for some brake dust and granulated tire wear there is zero pollution produced."
 

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I took the OP to read that he was talking about what happens when you drive the car. Not about the 'whole life' thing.

"Except for some brake dust and granulated tire wear there is zero pollution produced."
Yes. But that conclusion is wrong. EV is no doubt better than ICE but is very far from zero pollution.
 

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You can tie yourself in knots with this stuff.

EVs are definitely less polluting overall.

Now about these log-burners......
I seem to remember log burners being sold as an eco-friendly solution. The reason being that they are net carbon neutral due to new trees being planted to replace the old ones.

Doesn't stop the fumes causing health issues in the mean time.
 

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Yes. But that conclusion is wrong. EV is no doubt better than ICE but is very far from zero pollution.
Very happy to hear that, but you're still missing the point of the OP.
 

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Very happy to hear that, but you're still missing the point of the OP.
Once again, NO, it is still NOT zero pollution. The OP said/asked:

"If the car, for example, uses solar cell or hydroelectric generated power then it is producing zero pollution."


Wrong conclusion.

"Except for some brake dust and granulated tire wear there is zero pollution produced."

Wrong conclusion.

Which part of my answer was NOT clear for you? Which point was the OP making that I missed according to you?

Regardless how you look at it, you will NOT just get only "some brake dust and granulated tire wear " as pollution. Even if you live in a dream world and ONLY use wind, water and sun to produce your electricity to charge your car you will STILL pollute with more than just "some brake dust and granulated tire wear ". But of course, if you stick your head in the sand, you will not see that anything else than "some brake dust and granulated tire wear ". But sure, if you exclude EVERYTHING except "some brake dust and granulated tire wear " then you will only have "some brake dust and granulated tire wear " as pollution... :)
 
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