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Peugeot e-208
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I'm handing back my Zoe next week. Lockdown makes it unnecessary. I'll spend the next couple of months looking at what to replace it with. Maybe a Zoe again, but I'd like something that has more range and/ or faster charging. The charge curve really drops off above 50%

For what it's worth, I put one of my long-distance journeys (Newcastle - London) into ABRP, and it comes up with the following timings.

Total timeCharging timeCharges
Zoe ZE50 (winter)
(summer)
5h57
5h53
1h18
0h35
2
1
Peugeot e208 (winter)
(summer)
5h45
5h24
0h59
0h35
3
2
BMW i3 (winter)
(summer)
6h01
5h39
1h15
1h00
3
2
Hyundai Ioniq 38kWh (winter)
(summer)
5h47
5h37
1h08
0h48
2
2
Hyundai Kona (winter)
(summer)
4h56
4h47
0h29
0h20
1
1
VW ID3 77kW (winter)
(summer)
4h34
4h33
0h07
0h05
1
1

Do these numbers sound plausible to people who drive these cars? I'm really surprised that the Ioniq, with its small battery, could be quicker than the Zoe - by virtue of its quicker charging.
 

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Kia Soul EV 2020
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2,520 Posts
It might be more useful if you list the specifics of your trip, such as total distance, temperature, speed, starting charge, pre-heating.

Just looking on google maps, it gives me 5hr7m for 283 miles in an ICE car (I'm assuming). So, there is something strange with your results. Edit: google adjusting for traffic maybe?

And finally, using the same 283m (Newcastle - London) settings, ABPR gives me 4h46m driving and 2 charges to a total of 39m for my Soul EV 64kWh. Similar car, similar result to the Kona.
 

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Peugeot e-208
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612 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yes, Google traffic does mess the timings around a bit, but all of the above were queried at the same time (this morning), and with the same criteria. Speed at 100%, temp 7C, no extra weight, no wind, starting at 100% SoC with min 5% / max 90% en-route, using default consumption.

So a reasonable snapshot head-to-head. I'll try at summer temps, too.

I was surprised that ABRP thinks the smaller capacity 208 and Ioniq would be quicker than a Zoe, and wondering if it's borne out in reality.
 

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evezy referral code d6540
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The ID.3 needs one charging stop of 7 minutes! Surely you would lose more time than that by slowing down and leaving your route to go to the charging location and plugging in. And then the opposite process when you leave. Can’t see you doing all that in less than 15 minutes even if it’s a splash and dash.
 
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I was surprised that ABRP thinks the smaller capacity 208 and Ioniq would be quicker than a Zoe, and wondering if it's borne out in reality.
The Peugeot has 100kW CCS capability. Not sure how much difference that makes in real use.

The i3 has very good battery cooling. It does not throttle the charge rate back until about 85% SOC. The 2nd and 3rd charges will be at the same speed. If your route supports it, disconnect at 85% SOC.
 

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Peugeot e-208
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Surely you would lose more time than that by slowing down and leaving your route to go to the charging location and plugging in.
I assume ABRP adds the slowing down/ deviating into the 'driving time' element. Charging overhead, which I take to mean 'dead time from coming to a halt until charging starts + same upon leaving' is set at 2 minutes. Which may be a bit optimistic, but reasonable on an Instavolt.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The Peugeot has 100kW CCS capability. Not sure how much difference that makes in real use.

The i3 has very good battery cooling. It does not throttle the charge rate back until about 85% SOC. The 2nd and 3rd charges will be at the same speed. If your route supports it, disconnect at 85% SOC.
Worth knowing. Thanks.

Looking at the charge curves, I would expect the Peugeot to give me a significant benefit over the Renault. Even on a 50kW charger.
 
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evezy referral code d6540
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The Peugeot has 100kW CCS capability. Not sure how much difference that makes in real use.
According to EV Database, for a 10 to 80% fill, the e-208 pulls at an average of 46kW (65kWh on a 100kW Rapid) and for the Ioniq it’s 34kW (36 if hooked up to a 100kW unit).
 

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2021 Hyundai Kona Ultimate 64kWh
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I'd maybe say these numbers are a little optimistic in my experience. Using my most recent Newcastle-London trip as an example it was in a 120Ah i3, and mostly driving at an indicated 70. I Exclusively used EH Chargers so didn't have any extra time coming off the motorway but did have slightly slower chargers. This, in late summer took 3 charges and a journey time in excess of 6 hours without any significant traffic disruption that I remember.

What I do remember is feeling confused at the fact that it took me about the same time it used to take me in my old 30kWh LEAF despite the i3 having a larger battery, and a similar DC Charging curve.
 

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What I do remember is feeling confused at the fact that it took me about the same time it used to take me in my old 30kWh LEAF despite the i3 having a larger battery, and a similar DC Charging curve.
Yes but did you arrive with the same remaining range? Maybe as the LEAF was yours you were more confident in arriving with less miles in reserve.
 

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2021 Hyundai Kona Ultimate 64kWh
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Yes but did you arrive with the same remaining range? Maybe as the LEAF was yours you were more confident in arriving with less miles in reserve.
Yeah that's a fair point. With Chademo I had no worries about arriving at an Ecotricity location with a turtle on the dash and being confident that I'd get a charge. With most others especially with CCS I tend to get into a panic if I go below 10%.

Regarding the range at arrival I tend to make my final charge enough to get me where I need to be rather than a full charge on longer trips like this so that wasn't a factor here.

I still feel like even with the above taken into account that the BMW did a little worse than expected. I may have to take one on another trip to London after lockdown to experiment and test some more.
 

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Yes but did you arrive with the same remaining range? Maybe as the LEAF was yours you were more confident in arriving with less miles in reserve.
Again I wouldn't rely on their finger in the air figures that they make up prior to a cars launch and then never revise. Go with real world results from someone like Bjorn Nyland.
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I’m think ABRP uses realistic consumption data. I’m not sure if it’s detailed enough to factor in the charge curves
 

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I’m think ABRP uses realistic consumption data. I’m not sure if it’s detailed enough to factor in the charge curves
I would disagree:
  • Realistic consumption data - not really close to reality. For my Kia, ABRP had very pessimistic consumption ~3mpkWh. I have edited with more realistic value 3.6mpkWh. By the way, my average consumption over 2500miles is 3.8mpkWh.
  • Charge curves - ABRP has a very good algorithm and accounts for the standard charging curve for most EVs. But that is the problem, the standard charging curve doesn't account for cold/hot-gating.
 
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