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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all
Back again after all your advice last time

I'm currently driving a Peugeot e2008 demo car and started off today with 80 miles in the range

I drove around the motorways and some normal roads and it dropped to 45 miles. I therefore stopped at a services and connected to a rapid AC charger which I thought was rapid but it was loading car at 7kw per hour so would have taken 4hrs to get it charged

I therefore drove further to a ccs charger and it took 50 mins to charge 20 kwh which boosted the car to 99 miles, 3 quarters full

I then drove home, so in total I did 65 miles and when got home I had 80 in battery again so the charge I did gave me 65 miles.

My questions or help please are

1. The car charged only to 99 miles but then stopped but If you then calculate it if it went to fill and that would only have given me 130 miles but they advertise 200?

2. Do the home chargers manage to charge to 100% or do they stop like the motorway chargers?

3. What js the average range people get from the e2008?

4. What are the rapid chargers on the motorway as they don't seem to be the rapid chargers peugrot talk about, they seen to be the ccs chargers but they seem harder to find

I am nervous that whilst I can filly charge at home if I go on a run I could have to wait 3 hrs at a service for just 90 miles... or I find a ccs charger and get 90 miles in 1hr a bit better but still really not good for our summer holidays to Cornwall for example (300 mile one way)

I think the eniro 64krh may be better as has more range but any thoughts?

Does anyone also know how it works at airports as I dk a lot of business travel (when we are allowed agajn) and not sure how it works when leaving car at airport as surely you can't leave them plugged in the whole time? But coming back from a 4 day business trip and knowing first thing I need to do is charge it up is a bit of a worry too

Help and thank you
 

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GOLF GTE PHEV
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AC chargers are either slow or fast (7-43kw). CCS (DC) is the rapid charging method so as you have found, needs to be used on public chargers en route. Once you reach your destination then you can use a slower charger but don't leave the car in the bay once it's fully charged as you will block others from using it and may incur an overstay penalty. (same applies to rapid chargers)
Also, its not adviseable to leave an EV with 100% charged battery for long periods - days. So park at the airport with enough range to the closest rapid charger.

Claimed range is usually the WLTP range, which is like the fuel consumption claims for ICE vehicles - few ever achieve it.
Some claim Kia's get closer to the claimed mileage than others, but assume the realistic range is 20% less than advertised. However much depends on average speed, use of the heating or cooling etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
All great questions.

Did you not want to ask them before you bought the car?
Thanks, that would be useful but sales tell you what you want to hear and I'm looking for someone who actually has experience in real world.

Also I haven't brought it yet, I'm driving a demo car!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
AC chargers are either slow or fast (7-43kw). CCS (DC) is the rapid charging method so as you have found, needs to be used on public chargers en route. Once you reach your destination then you can use a slower charger but don't leave the car in the bay once it's fully charged as you will block others from using it and may incur an overstay penalty. (same applies to rapid chargers)
Also, its not adviseable to leave an EV with 100% charged battery for long periods - days. So park at the airport with enough range to the closest rapid charger.

Claimed range is usually the WLTP range, which is like the fuel consumption claims for ICE vehicles - few ever achieve it.
Some claim Kia's get closer to the claimed mileage than others, but assume the realistic range is 20% less than advertised. However much depends on average speed, use of the heating or cooling etc.
Thank you
Maybe stupid question

Can I use a DC CCS charged on the car if it is an AC charger?

I drove around today looking for a CCS but I saw plenty of CCS DC and thought I couldn't use them?

Thanks
 

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Thanks, that would be useful but sales tell you what you want to hear and I'm looking for someone who actually has experience in real world.

Also I haven't brought it yet, I'm driving a demo car!

The quoted range has nothing to do with sales speak, I'm afraid, it has everything to do with legislation. In the UK and Europe, manufacturers are obliged, by law, to quote both mpg (for conventional cars) and range (for EVs) according to a set of defined tests. This gives the WLTP range figure, which is almost always mythical. In exactly the same way that very few conventional cars ever return an mpg fiure that matches the advertising, very few EVs ever return a range that matches it, either. It's actually worse here than in the USA, as they use a different test system, so their EPA ranges, whilst still a bit optimistic, are closer to real world figures than out WLTP numbers.

The EV Database, here: EV Database tends to give real world range figures that are reasonably accurate, certainly a lot closer to reality than the WLTP figures all manufacturers have to quote.
 

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Most of the chargers at the motorway services are operated by Ecotricity. They are very old chargers and were installed before CCS was really a thing. Some service stations have CCS Equipped chargers, but about half still don't. In the next 4-6 months you will see this change and they will all have new chargers however.

AC Charging (Type 2) is limited by your car's onboard charger, which must be 7kW in your case. The only car that can take the full 43kW AC Rapid speed is the Renault Zoe. DC Charging (CCS) Goes straight into your battery avoiding the battery and can do up to 100kW on your car I believe. If you want to rapidly charge your car it is CCS That you need.

The EVs made by PSA (Peugeot, Citroen/DS, and Vauxhall) are very inefficient as you are discovering. This isn't the case with all of them. If you went for a Hyundai Kona or Kia Niro for example you would find you have waaaaaay more range per charge. If you are regularly going to be going on longer trips then it would be something along the lines of the above cars, the LEAF E+, or maybe a Model 3?

1) The range your car tells you is a guess based on your driving style. The range the manufacturer says is based on lab tests and not always realistic, especially in a car made by PSA.
2) You can charge to 100% At home on AC. You can also do the same on a DC Rapid charger but it will be VERY Slow to go past 80% and inconvenience others.
3) Your experiences sound about right for such a car.
4) You'll see things on the motorway improve in the coming months. In the meantime just make sure you only use the DC CCS Connectors if you want to rapid charge.


Thank you
Maybe stupid question

Can I use a DC CCS charged on the car if it is an AC charger?

I drove around today looking for a CCS but I saw plenty of CCS DC and thought I couldn't use them?

Thanks
CCS is ALWAYS DC. Yes, It's the only way to rapidly charge your car.
 

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GOLF GTE PHEV
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Thank you
Maybe stupid question

Can I use a DC CCS charged on the car if it is an AC charger?

I drove around today looking for a CCS but I saw plenty of CCS DC and thought I couldn't use them?

Thanks
The CCS plug is for 50+kw DC - so rapid charging. The car has a built in AC charger of a few kw mainly intended to allow home charging. It is the car that decides on how much current it can take, not the charger and the current also depends on battery temperature.
The Golden Rule with EVs is to buy or lease the one with the largest battery you can afford. It's better to have more range than you think you need as there will be times when you need it. Also, generally not good to run the battery too low - optimum battery life is often quoted as charging from 20-80%. You'll also find that charging slows dramatically when it reaches 80%.
 

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The Peugeot e-2008 has an on-board AC 7kW charger. There may be a few around with an 11kW on-board charger but I don't think there are many out there. Any AC charger you plug into will only charge up to the on-board chargers limit, 7kW in your case. It doesn't matter if it's a 22kW or 43kW AC charger, your car will only charge up to a maximum 7kW/hour.

If you plug into a RAPID DC charger (CCS) your car can, theoretically, charge up to 100kW/h although I have yet to see that reached, ever. Up to 80% state of charge you will get a rapid charge. Once the battery reached 80%, the rate at which it charges slows dramatically to protect the battery.

AC charges at up to the rated on-board AC charger, 7kW in this case. DC (CCS) by-passes the on-board AC charger and will charge up to the limit that is 100kW for your car but it will depend on many factors including the rated power of the Charger (50kW, 150kW, 350kW etc.) the ability of your car which is up to 100kW and other environmental factors such as the level of charge already in the battery, the temperature of the battery and the outside air temperature amongst other things.
 

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The Golden Rule with EVs is to buy or lease the one with the largest battery you can afford.


My rule: buy the range you need, not the battery you can afford.

From personal experice, 80 miles was not enough for us. 100 was ok and 110-120 is all we need.
 

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A home charger will charge at whichever is the lower: the charge point capacity, the cable capacity or the car charger capacity. It usually goes at full power until it reaches pretty near full then will drop in power while it does 'cell balancing' to make sure that all cells are equally charged.
 
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Hi all
Back again after all your advice last time

I'm currently driving a Peugeot e2008 demo car and started off today with 80 miles in the range

I drove around the motorways and some normal roads and it dropped to 45 miles. I therefore stopped at a services and connected to a rapid AC charger which I thought was rapid but it was loading car at 7kw per hour so would have taken 4hrs to get it charged

I therefore drove further to a ccs charger and it took 50 mins to charge 20 kwh which boosted the car to 99 miles, 3 quarters full

I then drove home, so in total I did 65 miles and when got home I had 80 in battery again so the charge I did gave me 65 miles.

My questions or help please are

1. The car charged only to 99 miles but then stopped but If you then calculate it if it went to fill and that would only have given me 130 miles but they advertise 200?

2. Do the home chargers manage to charge to 100% or do they stop like the motorway chargers?

3. What js the average range people get from the e2008?

4. What are the rapid chargers on the motorway as they don't seem to be the rapid chargers peugrot talk about, they seen to be the ccs chargers but they seem harder to find

I am nervous that whilst I can filly charge at home if I go on a run I could have to wait 3 hrs at a service for just 90 miles... or I find a ccs charger and get 90 miles in 1hr a bit better but still really not good for our summer holidays to Cornwall for example (300 mile one way)

I think the eniro 64krh may be better as has more range but any thoughts?

Does anyone also know how it works at airports as I dk a lot of business travel (when we are allowed agajn) and not sure how it works when leaving car at airport as surely you can't leave them plugged in the whole time? But coming back from a 4 day business trip and knowing first thing I need to do is charge it up is a bit of a worry too

Help and thank you
The indicated range of pretty much any car is based on driving history and consumption at the time. If this is a demo car it will have been driven hard, with heater on and no regard for efficiency. The car will report range based on those conditions. It's also been pretty cold. Things are warming up a bit now but low temperatures reduce the range of the car.

I don't know the Peugeot, but most EVs will give you a miles per kWh figure at the end of the journey. It's simple maths, how much usable battery do you have and how much power do you consume over a given distance? That tells you what the range is. It will probably take the car a bit of time to recalibrate to sensible driving, assuming that's what you're doing.

In practice if a car has a headline range of 200 miles, I would expect to get 150 from it. Chances are you won't charge to 100% all the time and you won't run it to empty....

My e-Niro has a headline 280 mile range. In practice I'd consider it 250. In the winter, 220, maybe slightly less. It's the reason I went for that car. a 50kWh battery with a headline 200 miles seems to be the sweet spot across a lot of marques and I knew that meant 180 or a bit less.... I needed 200.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks all for help.
I reset trip computer tonight and took it on a 70 mile run and got 3.1 kwh to mile out of it, driving very sensible!!

I took it to a CCS which advertised 50 kwh but it took an hour and 10 mins to put 15kwh into the car but got it to 99%

What I couldn't understand Is how a car is advertised as fast charging and 50 kwh can charge in 40 mins but this doesn't seem true or am I doing something wrong?

I need to charge it again tomorrow before it goes back so back to the park for a 1hr charge to put some back in it. It is advertised as a 50 kwh CCS but it getting no where near 50


I do think this is not right car for me and dk have demo with kia eniro in 2 weeks time so hoping for a bit more range.

My commute is 80 mile round trip so whilst I will have a home charger by then i don't want to be worrying I have to charge each day on way home from work for example. Thanks again
 

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I took it to a CCS which advertised 50 kwh but it took an hour and 10 mins to put 15kwh into the car but got it to 99%

What I couldn't understand Is how a car is advertised as fast charging and 50 kwh can charge in 40 mins but this doesn't seem true or am I doing something wrong?
It sounds like you plugged in with a high state of charge already. Rapid charging on CCS isn't something to do beyond 80%. See the charge curve for your car below.

142002
 

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1. The car charged only to 99 miles but then stopped but If you then calculate it if it went to fill and that would only have given me 130 miles but they advertise 200?
My old car was quoted as returning 62.8mpg, giving a predicted range of 967 miles. I actually got anything between 45-55mpg, giving a range of 693-847 miles. Welcome to marketing and garbage consumption tests. This is not a new problem, it's just exacerbated because EV range tends to be shorter than ICE range.
2. Do the home chargers manage to charge to 100% or do they stop like the motorway chargers?
They'll charge until either the car says stop or the charger says stop. My home charger is set to charge for as long as the car wants to.
What I couldn't understand Is how a car is advertised as fast charging and 50 kwh can charge in 40 mins but this doesn't seem true or am I doing something wrong?
One thing to keep in mind is that charge speed varies a lot with how full the battery is. If the battery is very close to empty or close to full, charge rates will tend to be slower than in the mid-range. They also charge slower when cold. See Charging Lithium-Ion Batteries for more info. Also, chargers may limit their output based on how many other people are charging at the same site.
 

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GOLF GTE PHEV
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Charging slows down more and more the closer it gets to 100%. This is true of all EVs and is to protect the battery. It is also slower if the battery is very cold, or too hot. It probably did take 50kw initially but only until the charge reached 80%..
You did 70miles at 3.1m/kwh = 22kw, so an 80mile round trip should use about 25kw. Therefore you need an EV with a battery of 40kwh to stay comfortably within the 20-80% SOC range.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
It sounds like you plugged in with a high state of charge already. Rapid charging on CCS isn't something to do beyond 80%. See the charge curve for your car below.

View attachment 142002
Most helpful thank you
It was charged to 70%
Would you have same for kka eniro
The car is currently at 44% so see how it does tomorrow
 

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3.1 miles per kWh is poor though. Most of us run with slightly over-inflated tyres and you get better mileage on a run when they heat up and go soft. Try to stay at or below 60mph. You should get nearer 4 miles/kWh, though, unless it is cold and higher in hot weather.
 
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