Rapid charger hogging

13164 Views 162 Replies 45 Participants Last post by Johnny Read, Oct 31, 2021

Ash104

Discussion Starter · Oct 16, 2021

I have noticed iceing is a massive issue especially in supermarkets. But I think what’s almost worse is other EV’s hogging rapid chargers and leaving their cars connected even after they are fully charged making it impossible for others to use. I reported Such a case to Instavolt today but unlike BP they have no overstay fees and the woman on the phone didn’t seem to care. Does anyone else think there should be government legislation to fine people for this selfish behaviour? Or better still drain the battery and put the electricity back into the grid once left connected after 100%

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pilotwoo

· #2 · Oct 16, 2021

Whats it got to do with the Government?

Sure, its selfish behaviour, but if you are shopping in the supermarket, you are not going to move your car half way through your shop. The charging providers need to start charging idle fees. That will soon stop this.

Drain the battery - now you are just being as ridiculous as the people hogging the charger.

Reactions: 5

donald

· #3 · Oct 16, 2021

Ash104 said:
Does anyone else think there should be government legislation to fine people for this selfish behaviour?

Some idiots might think that.

The owners of the charger are at liberty to set the rules of usage and enforcement of those rules.

Anyone else with 'self-entitlement' issues can go swivel. None of their business.

Reactions: 2

Zomb

· #4 · Oct 17, 2021

Ash104 said:
Does anyone else think there should be government legislation to fine people for this selfish behaviour?

? Government makes selfishness illegal. 70% of parliament sent to jail, including 90% of government.

Hmmm... Unlikely.

Reactions: 1

mrsapage

· #5 · Oct 17, 2021

I think people should be more considerate. But since that’s unlikely (anyone else notice a disappearance of all the fuzzy goodwill “all in it together” feelings that we had in lockdown?) overstay or graduated pricing is surely the answer. It happens with car parking (overheard a lady in a shop yesterday saying she had to rush off as her ticket was expiring) so why not with charging? £x per kWh til 80% then £2x from 80-90 and £3x from 90-100 and then a per minute charge after that. Also a per minute charge for occupying the space after charging ends (unless due to a charge point fault) to avoid people remotely stopping the charge and leaving the car there.
I’d gladly leave my trolley with customer services and nip out to move my car if it meant avoiding a penalty.

Reactions: 2

GarryL

· #6 · Oct 17, 2021

As @donald points out, it is up to the owner of the charger to decide how it can be used. One of the things that is a little surprising or confusing when getting your first EV is that 'public' chargers are largely not, in fact, public, in terms of ownership nor, in many cases, access i.e. there can be strings attached, such as you must be a customer of such-and-such establishment.

However, as a society or community, we ought to establish the normal conventions around their use. Then, if charger owners want to do it differently, they have to indicate it very clearly at the site. For rapids, the convention might mean time limits, either absolute or after a certain high state of charge, such as 90%, is reached, following which there would be overstay charges per minute. For destination chargers, I would expect a lot more leeway: I think it is reasonable to allow people to finish doing whatever they came to the 'destination' to do rather than having to fuss about moving their car in the middle of it.

Kind regards
- Garry

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Reactions: 1

Gareth_SC

· #7 · Oct 17, 2021

I think the problem is more to do with lack of charging points, and that should hopefully be addressed as more people switch to EVs.
Having only a couple of charging points in a large car park is not enough. Ok, with supermarkets you shouldn't take more than an hour to do your shopping, but if popping into a town centre, it's not unreasonable to be gone for 4 or 5 hours, and popping back to the car isn't always practical.
Often though, is there really a need to charge at all if you only live a few miles from the town centre and can charge at home before you leave?

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Jeremy Harris

· #8 · Oct 17, 2021

The simple answer is for charger operators to implement overstay fees, just like Tesla do with Superchargers. Easy to do, and once people realise that they are going to get a financial penalty for this then behaviours will change. Tesla charge an "idle fee" of 30p/minute for someone connected but not charging, which seems reasonable as a way to deter people from just leaving their cars connected once charging has completed.

Reactions: 2

MrMoonUK

· #9 · Oct 17, 2021

Why do people think laws/ the government are the answer, just like that pet theft nonsense, theft has always been an offence but no let’s create a new headline law, this is the same crap

Reactions: 4

KenB

· #10 · Oct 17, 2021

The vast majority of EV drivers are newbies and when you get talking to them you realise that there is lack of knowledge about chargers and charging. Just stand back a moment and think about what you have had to learn and still are. And then where is the average man going to acquire this knowledge ??? The newbies will be causing these problems for a long time yet best get used to it. Most newbies are scared stiff of going to a charger for the first time perhaps thinking if they get it wrong the car will be damaged.

A few day ago i saw a women pull up to a Gridserve charger which unfortunately was not working. She removed the plug to find that the car was then immobilzed and she could not move it. This car was a brand new Merc and she had to call Merc to fix!

Reactions: 2

donald

· #11 · Oct 17, 2021

GarryL said:
As @donald points out, it is up to the owner of the charger to decide how it can be used. One of the things that is a little surprising or confusing when getting your first EV is that 'public' chargers are largely not, in fact, public, in terms of ownership nor, in many cases, access i.e. there can be strings attached, such as you must be a customer of such-and-such establishment.

However, as a society or community, we ought to establish the normal conventions around their use. Then, if charger owners want to do it differently, they have to indicate it very clearly at the site. For rapids, the convention might mean time limits, either absolute or after a certain high state of charge, such as 90%, is reached, following which there would be overstay charges per minute. For destination chargers, I would expect a lot more leeway: I think it is reasonable to allow people to finish doing whatever they came to the 'destination' to do rather than having to fuss about moving their car in the middle of it.

Kind regards
- Garry

To be fair to the OP, if there is any legislation that sets requirements for charger provision in public places on trunk roads (specifically, motorway services) then the Gov might well include within that requirement some expectation that timings for charges is regulated in some way.

Of course, they'd say it is now, already, as there is a time limit on the services car parks.

No one solution is ever going to satisfy everyone.

Of course, private chargers like at Lidl and such, it is entirely at the owner's discretion.

I will offer the following warning; make it too difficult for them by throwing lots of regulations at them, and they simply won't bother offering a charger at all. Why should they if everyone is making it difficult for them? Would you?

Reactions: 1

GarryL

· #12 · Oct 17, 2021

MrMoonUK said:
Why do people think laws/ the government are the answer, just like that pet theft nonsense, theft has always been an offence but no let’s create a new headline law, this is the same crap

There are laws around how petrol pumps work. Why should 'public' EV charge points be any different?

If you are merely saying there is a danger of over-reach here -- that laws could end up doing more harm than good by making it overly burdensome to operate charge points -- then I agree. There has to be a sensible balance that protects the consumer and encourages EV uptake.

davidr1963

· #13 · Oct 17, 2021

I think it takes time for the new EV drivers to understand using rapid chargers.

I pulled up at a rapid for a quick ten minute top up to find a Corsa plugged in at 90%. 40 minutes later, the car was at 99% when the owner appeared and couldn’t understand why I was annoyed.

Her response was “I’ve got to get back to London” (all of 60 miles!).

Last week at the same charger, I was charging (and eating my lunch) when someone came along. A quick glance showed that I had more than enough for the rest of my journey so I finished charging and let the new arrival get on.

The main difference between me and the Corsa driver is that I’ve been driving an EV for over six years and fully understand how my vehicle and chargers. I’m sure that a few years down the line she’ll probably understand and be more considerate too.

Reactions: 5

Jeremy Harris

· #14 · Oct 17, 2021

Surely simple economics will just fix this as soon as chargers get more heavily used, won't it? After all, it's economics that caused Tesla to introduce idle fees, just because a charger that's plugged in but not charging isn't earning revenue. Sooner or later all the charger operators are going to reach the same conclusion, I would have thought. I can't see why on earth the government need to get involved at all. The only reason they did with fuel pumps was fire safety, no other reason.

Reactions: 2

Geoff_S

· #15 · Oct 17, 2021

GarryL said:
There are laws around how petrol pumps work. Why should 'public' EV charge points be any different?

If you are merely saying there is a danger of over-reach here -- that laws could end up doing more harm than good by making it overly burdensome to operate charge points -- then I agree. There has to be a sensible balance that protects the consumer and encourages EV uptake.

I didn’t know that. What are the laws relating to petrol pumps?

KenB

· #16 · Oct 17, 2021

davidr1963 said:
I think it takes time for the new EV drivers to understand using rapid chargers.

I pulled up at a rapid for a quick ten minute top up to find a Corsa plugged in at 90%. 40 minutes later, the car was at 99% when the owner appeared and couldn’t understand why I was annoyed.

Her response was “I’ve got to get back to London” (all of 60 miles!).

Last week at the same charger, I was charging (and eating my lunch) when someone came along. A quick glance showed that I had more than enough for the rest of my journey so I finished charging and let the new arrival get on.

The main difference between me and the Corsa driver is that I’ve been driving an EV for over six years and fully understand how my vehicle and chargers. I’m sure that a few years down the line she’ll probably understand and be more considerate too.

Well done. Those of us who know must lead by eg and explain by interacting not just complaining to a third person.

Reactions: 3

GarryL

· #17 · Oct 17, 2021

Geoff_S said:
I didn’t know that. What are the laws relating to petrol pumps?

You could start with The Petroleum (Consolidation) Regulations 2014 but there will be others too.

Edit: actually, I see what you meant now. There are no rules about time limits waiting at petrol pumps (that I know of) and I didn't mean to imply that there were. I was talking more widely about the need for us to establish normal rules of use.

donald

· #18 · Oct 17, 2021

GarryL said:
You could start with The Petroleum (Consolidation) Regulations 2014 but there will be others too.

Surely these will relate to the safety and construction of the pumps (for which there are already likewise provisions for electrical equipment), not any regulation of the service provision offered to customers?

Reactions: 1

6077

· #19 · Oct 17, 2021

GarryL said:
You could start with The Petroleum (Consolidation) Regulations 2014 but there will be others too.

Edit: actually, I see what you meant now. There are no rules about time limits waiting at petrol pumps (that I know of) and I didn't mean to imply that there were. I was talking more widely about the need for us to establish normal rules of use.

That law is about the safe storage and dispensing of petrol as a dangerous substance.

Hardly the same as passing a law to make bad manners illegal.

Reactions: 1

GarryL

· #20 · Oct 17, 2021

Jeremy Harris said:
Surely simple economics will just fix this as soon as chargers get more heavily used, won't it? After all, it's economics that caused Tesla to introduce idle fees, just because a charger that's plugged in but not charging isn't earning revenue. Sooner or later all the charger operators are going to reach the same conclusion, I would have thought. I can't see why on earth the government need to get involved at all. The only reason they did with fuel pumps was fire safety, no other reason.

The difference perhaps is that Tesla want, primarily, to promote EV use and, secondarily, to make money from charging.

Some other charge point operators may have other motivations, such as green-washing or box-ticking. Where electricity is being given away for free or below the cost price of operating the charge point, as a loss leader, this also affects motivations.

Also, given limited EV range and small number of charging locations, there is somewhat of a monopoly situation (or rather, a number of local monopolies/oligopolies), which limited free market competition, but this is improving.

There are also weights and measures rules for petrol pumps, for consumer protection. It isn't all about safety. There are already laws about public EV charging, such as Automated and Electric Vehicles Act 2018, and there will certainly be more.

Kind regards
- Garry

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