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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Having just watched Bjorn Nyland's informative video on the new Ioniq 38 kwh charging profile, which is basically as as slow as my Renault Zoe Q90 on rapid AC. I thought I might share this comment that I found on Zap-Map


This has always been my worry with the newer bigger battery cars appearing. Who the F*** needs to absolutely must rapid charge to 100%? Especially when anyone with an EV and a brain knows that the rapid charging ramps down as the battery gets over two-thirds full. It's faster to get off at 80% and drive. If in any doubt....Google it. There are plenty of smarter people than I who will tell you this.

EDIT...just done a search....check the charging profile from FASTNED for the I-Pace

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I must suggest to POLAR that they up the overstay charges dramatically, say £100.....no?

By the way, if this is you and you are on this forum then, just my personal opinion, you are a numpty....with way too much money.....but a nice taste in good British cars.
 

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I agree, 100% on a rapid should be heavily discouraged.
I tried that about 4 years ago, when I politely asked another EV owner how long he thought that he might be as his car trickle charged on a Rapid at 92%. I got a mouthful of Brummie foul abuse in return.

Last year, I watched a PHEV owner on a CCS Rapid have a coffee; walk his dog, and take a leak whilst his car took on 1.8kWhs of charge In just over 45 minutes.

Discouragement has to be managed by the charger operators/site owners rather than EV drivers. If someone is happy to pay an overstay charge, then I am not sure that there is much other EV owners can do.
 

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Let's not forget that the membership of this forum bubble only represents a small percentage of EV owners, and as EV ownership becomes more widespread, more and more owners are going to fall outside of the "EV geek" set and just be regular owners in the same way that most ICE owners are. In the same way that ICE owners fill their tanks to 100%, the majority of EV owners will have the same approach and any requirement for them to develop charging strategies based on tapering and distance travelled/time on charger differential calculations is just another obstacle to EV adoption. Yes, charging etiquette is a mess. but for EV adoption to happen, EV ownership can afford to be different from ICE ownership, but not more difficult.
 

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Not me!

But as someone in the area with a 22kWh Zoe I could foresee the odd occasion I might want a 100% charge. For example, crossing the pennines (A66) to see the rest of the family in winter with a 50-60 mile range, it's already pretty much a gamble where you hope there's nothing wrong with the Kirkby Stephen charger. In some of these extreme situations it might be prudent to try and get as much charge as possible just in case something goes awry.

However I'd agree that in like 95% of situations even I would never need to, nor want to, considering I'd be sat twiddling my thumbs for so much longer - past 80% it ramps down to 11kW, at 90% about 7kW etc. Not worth it.

But if they weren't blocking anyone and stayed with the car (which are the main Right Things To Do) then does it really matter. They paid their £10 and made their choice. If there's someone waiting then absolutely, GTFO at 80% and let them in and if necessary, take a risk. If there's no one there then what's the harm? Especially in Carnforth. They probably see an EV there like once a year (mine to be exact when I park at the station and go away for a weekend, and I wouldn't need a charge there either)
 

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I think a bigger problem is those with PHEV's using Rapid chargers.
Came across one yesterday, plugged in for over 50 minutes to put in 3kWh, when next to the Rapid was a 7kWh post he could have used.
When I asked why he was using the Rapid when there was a Fast charger next to it, excuse was he did not know he could use the fast post!
 

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I think a bigger problem is those with PHEV's using Rapid chargers.
Came across one yesterday, plugged in for over 50 minutes to put in 3kWh, when next to the Rapid was a 7kWh post he could have used.
When I asked why he was using the Rapid when there was a Fast charger next to it, excuse was he did not know he could use the fast post!
Probably didn't have a cable.
 

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I think a bigger problem is those with PHEV's using Rapid chargers.
Came across one yesterday, plugged in for over 50 minutes to put in 3kWh, when next to the Rapid was a 7kWh post he could have used.
When I asked why he was using the Rapid when there was a Fast charger next to it, excuse was he did not know he could use the fast post!
Or perhaps would have needed to connect his own cable rather than use a tethered one?
 

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I think a bigger problem is those with PHEV's using Rapid chargers.
Came across one yesterday, plugged in for over 50 minutes to put in 3kWh, when next to the Rapid was a 7kWh post he could have used.
When I asked why he was using the Rapid when there was a Fast charger next to it, excuse was he did not know he could use the fast post!
One man has tried to deter PHEV owners from using his Company’s Rapids:

 

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That was 2016, they're charging per kWh currently.
I didn’t say that he had succeeded. As ever, no charging system suits all EV owners. Following the introduction of a charge, there were many pages on this forum from angry EV owners complaining about the disproportionate cost of a few ‘get you home kWhs’. The charging scheme was modified as a result. The downside of that was it opened up the Rapid chargers to PHEV owners.
 

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The problem is manufacturers not the user. The Ioniq charges at 45kW until 80%, then 20kW to 94%, then stops. Cable is free to be removed.

So cars should stop charging below a reasonable level, Rapid chargers should not go below 7kW.

So if a PHEV plugs in it will either not work or stop. i3 cannot sit at 1kW etc.
 

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One man has tried to deter PHEV owners from using his Company’s Rapids:

Actually, Vince has tried to deter everyone from using them via variety of means.
Been very effective in my case, i wont bother with them any more unless desperate.
 

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Not me!

But as someone in the area with a 22kWh Zoe I could foresee the odd occasion I might want a 100% charge. For example, crossing the pennines (A66) to see the rest of the family in winter with a 50-60 mile range, it's already pretty much a gamble where you hope there's nothing wrong with the Kirkby Stephen charger. In some of these extreme situations it might be prudent to try and get as much charge as possible just in case something goes awry.

However I'd agree that in like 95% of situations even I would never need to, nor want to, considering I'd be sat twiddling my thumbs for so much longer - past 80% it ramps down to 11kW, at 90% about 7kW etc. Not worth it.

But if they weren't blocking anyone and stayed with the car (which are the main Right Things To Do) then does it really matter. They paid their £10 and made their choice. If there's someone waiting then absolutely, GTFO at 80% and let them in and if necessary, take a risk. If there's no one there then what's the harm? Especially in Carnforth. They probably see an EV there like once a year (mine to be exact when I park at the station and go away for a weekend, and I wouldn't need a charge there either)
Rapids normally have a time limit of 1 hour and you are perfectly entitled to use that. If no queue then carry on charging.

My car cuts off at 82% and often I need more. Only takes another 15 mins max to get up to 96% which is well within the hour so nobody has the right to moan.

Speaking to nice chap last night it takes about 1.5 hours to rapid his iPace for his long journey ahead.

Whereas I was just stuck in 4kWh to complete journey in 10 mins.

We all have different needs and have to rub along.

Always brilliant chatting to other owners.
 

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Actually, Vince has tried to deter everyone from using them via variety of means.
Been very effective in my case, i wont bother with them any more unless desperate.
The latest increase to 39p/kWh is the last straw IMO. Whether that outweighs the convenience of them being on motorways remains to be seen. When I had an ICE, I never used MSAs for refuelling due to the inflated prices.
 

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The problem is manufacturers not the user. The Ioniq charges at 45kW until 80%, then 20kW to 94%, then stops. Cable is free to be removed.

So cars should stop charging below a reasonable level, Rapid chargers should not go below 7kW.

So if a PHEV plugs in it will either not work or stop. i3 cannot sit at 1kW etc.
I agree, and charge by the minute, rather than by kWh. Say 10p/minute for the 1st hour & then £1/minute after that on a Rapid charger.
That should help stop the PHEV's owners misusing the Rapid chargers and also those staying on the chargers past 80-90% when the rate of charge drops.
 

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Sadly PHEV owners I’ve had great conversations with have assumed the AC on a rapid is for slow charging.

Education and signage on the rapids would certainly help.
Yes, of the ones I have met, they do seem to be lacking in knowledge about the different chargers.
Had one last year that had plugged her BMW PHEV into a Polar Rapid charger for over 5 hours; totally unaware of the £10/hour overstay fee, despite a notice on the charger!
 

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I wonder if making vehicles shut off at 80% on a rapid (like a few already do might) help push behaviour in the right direction? This at least focuses the mind that you’ve generally reached the end of the “rapid charge rate” for your vehicle and your vehicle is now going to charge much more slowly. The fact that you can re-start a charge to go above 80% means for those that ‘need’ a higher SOC to continue will have the option, but I would expect most users would probably just unplug at that stage.
 
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