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The problem is manufacturers not the user. The Ioniq charges at 45kW until 80%, then 20kW to 94%, then stops. Cable is free to be removed.

So cars should stop charging below a reasonable level, Rapid chargers should not go below 7kW.

So if a PHEV plugs in it will either not work or stop. i3 cannot sit at 1kW etc.

To my knowledge there is nothing on a Rapid to show kWs: it is usually calibrated in volts and amps. C.7.6kWs equates to 32 amps on a domestic single phase charging circuit but not on a Rapid :the amperage on a Rapid would have to fall below c.12.6 amps to be charging at a lower rate than a standard 7kW post. (based on my last rapid charge at a notional 395 volts).
 

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The latest increase to 39p/kWh is the last straw IMO. Whether that outweighs the convenience of them being on motorways remains to be seen. When I had an ICE, I never used MSAs for refuelling due to the inflated prices.
Yes it’s expensive but as they explain in their email to users, they don’t make a profit and are committed to upgrading older pumps and introducing new ones. The issue for me is that it is essential that all motorways and major trunk routes have adequate functioning rapid chargers. Most MSAs have only one, some none. This is an area where there should be a government contribution.
 

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I think a bigger problem is those with PHEV's using Rapid chargers.
Came across one yesterday, plugged in for over 50 minutes to put in 3kWh, when next to the Rapid was a 7kWh post he could have used.
When I asked why he was using the Rapid when there was a Fast charger next to it, excuse was he did not know he could use the fast post!
hah I came across Leaf 40 at Nissan Rapid that was at 85% - owner not around. After 20 mins, the chap turns up and he has no desire to unplug so at 92% I tell him that its charging at very low speed and that it would be nice if he could use the AC next to rapid as it will charge at the same speed in this instance. He asks me why I dont want to use the AC charger if it was equally fast. I tried again.. gave up and went away.
 

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This has always been a problem, the real fly in the ointment back then, was the outlander PHEV.

Sadly, the majority of people have no idea how fast their car can charge on AC/DC, and always go for the bigger one, because it is faster.

Based on conversations had recently, it does seem the majority are of the opinion you should just plug in to the nearest charger, with no thought for others.
 

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Not me!

But as someone in the area with a 22kWh Zoe I could foresee the odd occasion I might want a 100% charge. For example, crossing the pennines (A66) to see the rest of the family in winter with a 50-60 mile range, it's already pretty much a gamble where you hope there's nothing wrong with the Kirkby Stephen charger. In some of these extreme situations it might be prudent to try and get as much charge as possible just in case something goes awry.

However I'd agree that in like 95% of situations even I would never need to, nor want to, considering I'd be sat twiddling my thumbs for so much longer - past 80% it ramps down to 11kW, at 90% about 7kW etc. Not worth it.

But if they weren't blocking anyone and stayed with the car (which are the main Right Things To Do) then does it really matter. They paid their £10 and made their choice. If there's someone waiting then absolutely, GTFO at 80% and let them in and if necessary, take a risk. If there's no one there then what's the harm? Especially in Carnforth. They probably see an EV there like once a year (mine to be exact when I park at the station and go away for a weekend, and I wouldn't need a charge there either)
As a 24kWh Leaf owner I've had a couple of occasions where I've sat on a rapid to get above 80%. It mostly boils down to situations where I must get somewhere and don't have time to add another charge to the journey or risk turning up close to my destination and having to queue or finding a faulty charger. That said I've never hogged a charger when someone else needed it, most EV owners are very obliging. Yesterday I turned up at a free rapid to find a 62% charged 40kWh Leaf on the Chademo, the guy came out of the supermarket and was obviously about to go into another store on the retail park but came over to offer to unplug so I could grab 15 minutes.

Similarly the other day I'd unwittingly plugged into a 22kW PodPoint (three identical chargers 1 x 22kW and 2 x 7kW) and a lady in a Zoe turned up and asked very politely if I could move. Only then did I spot the tiny 'Fast Charger' label someone had added and realised the situation. It's a little precarious for us shorter range EV drivers and we have to help each other out!
 

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As a 24kWh Leaf owner I've had a couple of occasions where I've sat on a rapid to get above 80%. It mostly boils down to situations where I must get somewhere and don't have time to add another charge to the journey or risk turning up close to my destination and having to queue or finding a faulty charger. That said I've never hogged a charger when someone else needed it, most EV owners are very obliging. Yesterday I turned up at a free rapid to find a 62% charged 40kWh Leaf on the Chademo, the guy came out of the supermarket and was obviously about to go into another store on the retail park but came over to offer to unplug so I could grab 15 minutes.

Similarly the other day I'd unwittingly plugged into a 22kW PodPoint (three identical chargers 1 x 22kW and 2 x 7kW) and a lady in a Zoe turned up and asked very politely if I could move. Only then did I spot the tiny 'Fast Charger' label someone had added and realised the situation. It's a little precarious for us shorter range EV drivers and we have to help each other out!
Always nice to hear of the happier interactions. It often sounds so confrontational on here that it makes me fear ever having to ask if someone would consider moving in that kind of scenario in case I get my head kicked in :)

Can definitely understand needing 100% sometimes on a Leaf24 as well, having slightly less range than the Zoe22 as far as I've heard which can already be tight in some sparse areas as mentioned.
 

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Based on conversations had recently, it does seem the majority are of the opinion you should just plug in to the nearest charger, with no thought for others.
We come back to the fundamental point which is that if the rules allow it, then slow charging/charger hogging EV owners are doing nothing wrong. No doubt EV charger owners monitor the use of their chargers, and review their price plans on an ongoing basis.
 

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Used to charge the Zoe 22kWh to 99% on EH enroute all the time, for two reasons:
  • It would comfortably complete within the 45min limit
  • That amount of charge was required to make it to the next charger!
It's a rather different ball game with today's bigger-battery cars, of course.

Although I will be Supercharging the Model 3 to 95%+, as 1) that's basically the only place I can fill the thing up and 2) there's plenty of spare capacity, so nobody will be inconvenienced.
 

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A Li-ion battery charging has 2 phases. Constant Current CC and Constant Voltage.
The first phase is constant current that maintains high amperage and the pack voltage slowly rises. When the desired pack voltage is achieved, the charging shifts to constant voltage that sees fixed voltage and current starting to taper.

IMO rapid chargers should disconnect once CV phase has dropped amperage sufficiently. I think general consensus seems to exists - now only if Charging companies would do something like this.
 

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A Li-ion battery charging has 2 phases. Constant Current CC and Constant Voltage.
The first phase is constant current that maintains high amperage and the pack voltage slowly rises. When the desired pack voltage is achieved, the charging shifts to constant voltage that sees fixed voltage and current starting to taper.

IMO rapid chargers should disconnect once CV phase has dropped amperage sufficiently. I think general consensus seems to exists - now only if Charging companies would do something like this.
I fear that we are now getting into another tricky area of discussion. Should EV owners be free to disconnect an EV from a rapid charger that has ‘finished’ charging? Having suffered from a stuck rapid plug, I am not sure that I would want A N Other applying undue pressure to a stuck plug when it is easily released by pulling an internal cord. The former could cause a lot of damage that might only be noticed the next time that an attempt is made to charge.
 

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If it's released the lock then sure, unplug.

Although this currently is fine in the current world of EV enthusiasts, I can imagine Petty Dave from Sheffield claiming you "damaged his cable" in the future...
 

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To my knowledge there is nothing on a Rapid to show kWs: it is usually calibrated in volts and amps. C.7.6kWs equates to 32 amps on a domestic single phase charging circuit but not on a Rapid :the amperage on a Rapid would have to fall below c.12.6 amps to be charging at a lower rate than a standard 7kW post. (based on my last rapid charge at a notional 395 volts).
Try an Instavolt charger next time.
 

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This has always been a problem, the real fly in the ointment back then, was the outlander PHEV.

Sadly, the majority of people have no idea how fast their car can charge on AC/DC, and always go for the bigger one, because it is faster.

Based on conversations had recently, it does seem the majority are of the opinion you should just plug in to the nearest charger, with no thought for others.
The Outlander PHEV is one of the few vehicles that cuts out when rapid charging on Chademo at 80%, so unless an owner restarts the charge it gets an 0-80% charge is a little over 20 mins. However it is charging at 22kW rather than at the full capacity of the rapid. However it cannot block the AC on a rapid as it uses a T1 connection rather than T2, unlike many other 3.5kW T2 PHEVs.
 

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The Outlander PHEV is one of the few vehicles that cuts out when rapid charging on Chademo at 80%, so unless an owner restarts the charge it gets an 0-80% charge is a little over 20 mins.
Yeah but they leave it parked there for 2 hours.
 

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Rapids normally have a time limit of 1 hour and you are perfectly entitled to use that. If no queue then carry on charging.

My car cuts off at 82% and often I need more. Only takes another 15 mins max to get up to 96% which is well within the hour so nobody has the right to moan.

Speaking to nice chap last night it takes about 1.5 hours to rapid his iPace for his long journey ahead.

Whereas I was just stuck in 4kWh to complete journey in 10 mins.

We all have different needs and have to rub along.

Always brilliant chatting to other owners.
Spot on😁
 

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Yeah but they leave it parked there for 2 hours.
But that’s nothing to do with the type of car, just the idiot driving it. The last time I used a rapid there was a Zoe plugged in but not charging and no driver in sight, thankfully that meant DC was still available. I left 30 mins later and the Zoe was still there. Using your logic maybe all Zoe’s should be banned from using rapids on that basis ;-)
 

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Honestly if there were more rapids, we wouldn't need to have this topic. Let's not blame each other for the charging network's shortcomings.
 

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I can't help but think there needs to be a redesign as to how chargers work. If they make the charging head a very cheap empty box and put all the expensive power electronics in a separate box that can run a lot of charging heads at low power or a smaller number at high power then there would be plenty of ports for people wanting the slow charge to plug into, and still plenty of power for those actually rapid charging.
 
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Stephen Beynon
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