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Lithium ion batteries in cars must be cooled or could lethal when they ignite.
That is not correct. The battery chemistry Nissan use is stable. Telsa are / were the only ones using batteries prone to thermal runaway. Oh and Boeing but they don't build cars :)

LEAF 24 'lizard battery' and LEAF 30 do just fine without active cooling.

The upcoming 60kWh LEAF ePower is on a different chemistry that may require some cooling. We will have to wait and see.
 

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My second charge yesterday was slow, in that it was only 30kW when I plugged in, it took on board almost 25kWh in 45 mins and went from 10% to 75%. This is within Nissan’s advertised timeframe
 
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On the subject of production pausing, it's August and my local dealer says they won't be getting any new leafs until October because the UK cars are not currently in production. Those for the continent are.

He has one demonstrator and can't sell it so is reliant on customers ordering cars they won't see for several months and asking no questions.

He knows me well enough not to make up the story.
 

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This is my contribution to the rapidgate experience/ debate with a 40kWh 2019 leaf with the software fix.
These are my battery temperatures doing a 165 mile out and 165 mile return journey on the same day (2Aug2020). On the motorway we did 65mph (GPS) in ECO with speed (not range) cruise control, no Epedal.

  • The battery started out at 100% at 20degC
  • We did two 13/26 minutes stops where the car was FastCharged (40kW per hour)
  • It sat for 4+ hours on a 10A granny charger (the relatives wanted to contribute to our journey costs!)
  • We set off home
  • We did another 26 minute fast charge and the battery hit 50% and the charging rate throttled (so we stopped charging and left)
  • The final rapid charge was throttled to 26kW per hour and the max battery temperature got to 53degC (when we stopped and set off)
On the final leg of the journey we drove at 55mph to extend the range and get home (which we did, with battery to spare!)

My own conclusions:
  • At motorway speeds, two rapid charges is all you get
  • If you push the battery to 50degC and then charge overnight don't count on two fast charges the next day
(After a 75% charge starting at midnight the battery was still 33degC the next morning, you'd probably be better off starting with a granny charger the moment you got to your destination as the battery does cool during granny charging)
- Driving (at motorway speeds) warms the battery as much as rapid charging it
133350



It would be interesting to do the journey again in the winter in the rain
 

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This is why I ditched my 2018 Leaf 40 which had the update.

Now I can rapid charge as often as I want at over 70kW on a compatible high power charger.

Happy days
 

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Hi all. We have the software update applied to our 2018 Leaf 40 and were wondering if anyone has heard of having it removed? Or whether it can be removed?

We tend to draw about 25kW from a rapid charger since the update (which I guess is it doing its job) but this just leads to longer charge times on long journeys or more charge stops. I'm not sure how useful the update actually is for us now where the distances we drive can be long but have become less frequent.
 

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I had a March 2018 LEAF 40Kwh 2.ZERO which had the RAPIDGATE software up date applied (it was automatically installed on all production cars for May 2018).

What the software up date did was allow a higher Kw charge rate at higher battery temperatures, the original software installed was over pessimistic to say the least.

Typically as long as the battery temperature gauge was below three quarters (43°c) the charge rate from say 20% SOC through to 60% SOC would be 44Kw's - between 60% and 80% it would tail off to 26Kw's and then tail off to 16Kw's at 92% SOC - usually in 45 minutes.

If the Battery temperature is not above three quarter on the gauge when commencing the rapid charge these are the charge rates you should expect on a correctly functioning rapid charger.

If you are not getting anything like this then your vehicle may have a fault or the software up date was not correctly installed. I would go back to the dealer and have it checked out - 25Kw's on a rapid charger is totally unacceptable..
 

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Hi all. We have the software update applied to our 2018 Leaf 40 and were wondering if anyone has heard of having it removed? Or whether it can be removed?

We tend to draw about 25kW from a rapid charger since the update (which I guess is it doing its job) but this just leads to longer charge times on long journeys or more charge stops. I'm not sure how useful the update actually is for us now where the distances we drive can be long but have become less frequent.
I would use the car down to about 20/30% after a standard charge then jump on a rapid and see what power you are getting. If its still down at 25kWh then there's an issue with either the car or the rapid. So try another rapid. If still 25kWh then it does sound like the update isn't right. It would be unusual for hardware to cause that.
If it was the update as standard then there would be thousands of Leaf 40 owners kicking off with 25kWh charge rates.
I had the update on one 40 and it was as from the factory on my new one. Neither caused your problem.
 
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Thinking about it and not wanting to sound alarmist, but it could be the BMS protecting weak cells, just a thought.
 

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Just to be picky, the title of your graph says 329 miles in a day, but the individual distances annotated in the graph add up to 407 miles. To be even pickier, the graph says Fast Charge, but they were rapid charges.

I also don't understand your max. and min. temperatures. At the end of your journey was the battery temperature 49.3 or 39 degrees? You say at the start of your trip the car was 100% charged with a battery temperature of 20 degrees, so why does the graph show a maximum of 20 (20.3) and a minimum of 17.6? Were you using an app which showed a range of temperatures (the car's display just shows a bar without any values)?
 

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I don’t understand why battery temp increased whilst driving. This problem was cured by the update if speeds was kept below about 60 mph.
You can still cook the battery at constant speeds over 70mph or climbing mountains and many traffic light drag races.

Once battery is hot it slows charge but temp usually stays constant after charging or slightly cools during driving.
 

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I had a March 2018 LEAF 40Kwh 2.ZERO which had the RAPIDGATE software up date applied (it was automatically installed on all production cars for May 2018).

What the software up date did was allow a higher Kw charge rate at higher battery temperatures, the original software installed was over pessimistic to say the least.

Typically as long as the battery temperature gauge was below three quarters (43°c) the charge rate from say 20% SOC through to 60% SOC would be 44Kw's - between 60% and 80% it would tail off to 26Kw's and then tail off to 16Kw's at 92% SOC - usually in 45 minutes.

If the Battery temperature is not above three quarter on the gauge when commencing the rapid charge these are the charge rates you should expect on a correctly functioning rapid charger.

If you are not getting anything like this then your vehicle may have a fault or the software up date was not correctly installed. I would go back to the dealer and have it checked out - 25Kw's on a rapid charger is totally unacceptable..
Thanks for your comments. Really helpful. I will go back to Nissan and get them to check the upgrade - although I'm not overconfident they will know whether it's been implemented correctly or not. :)
 

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I would use the car down to about 20/30% after a standard charge then jump on a rapid and see what power you are getting. If its still down at 25kWh then there's an issue with either the car or the rapid. So try another rapid. If still 25kWh then it does sound like the update isn't right. It would be unusual for hardware to cause that.
If it was the update as standard then there would be thousands of Leaf 40 owners kicking off with 25kWh charge rates.
I had the update on one 40 and it was as from the factory on my new one. Neither caused your problem.
Thanks for your comments - good to know that it's likely to be a fault that needs sorting and not a Nissan 'feature' :)
 

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Thanks for your comments. Really helpful. I will go back to Nissan and get them to check the upgrade - although I'm not overconfident they will know whether it's been implemented correctly or not. :)
Most likely they will reapply it.
I had a copy of the technical bulletin, the method is quite precise and easy to miss a step I imagine.
 
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I'm sure many people know these points but worth reiterating for those unfamiliar:
  • if you already have >60% you won't see full rapid speeds when charging (typically it will scale down from high 30s power to mid 20s (kW) between about 60% and 80%). You get max charging speed between about 20% and 60%.
  • the temperature of the battery at the START of the charge is what determines the throttle. So if you are close to a temperature when it might throttle, provided you are below the threshold at the start, you will get a fast charge.
  • driving at 60mph will keep battery constant temp, or possibly lose a degree per hour. Driving at 65+ will add heat, how much depends how fast you're going
  • caveat to that: once the battery % is below 20%, for some reason more heat is generated by driving and so to minimise heat you should charge before reaching 20%
  • temperature is hard to lose once it is in the battery - even a hot battery (>45deg C) sitting idle in a car park for 4 hours will only lose a few degrees (5-ish, maybe).
Several times, I have done a 350 mile return trip (with a 5 hour stop at halfway). This involved 4 rapid charges, and I consistently had some minor throttling (worst was 28kwh) on the 4th rapid. All my driving was done at 60mph and charges were done from 20% to 80% as far as possible.

Also check out Lemon Tea Leaf's youtube videos. One of them he has shared a google drive sheet with throttle vs battery temperature at start of charge.
 

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I'm sure many people know these points but worth reiterating for those unfamiliar:
  • if you already have >60% you won't see full rapid speeds when charging (typically it will scale down from high 30s power to mid 20s (kW) between about 60% and 80%). You get max charging speed between about 20% and 60%.
  • the temperature of the battery at the START of the charge is what determines the throttle. So if you are close to a temperature when it might throttle, provided you are below the threshold at the start, you will get a fast charge.
  • driving at 60mph will keep battery constant temp, or possibly lose a degree per hour. Driving at 65+ will add heat, how much depends how fast you're going
  • caveat to that: once the battery % is below 20%, for some reason more heat is generated by driving and so to minimise heat you should charge before reaching 20%
  • temperature is hard to lose once it is in the battery - even a hot battery (>45deg C) sitting idle in a car park for 4 hours will only lose a few degrees (5-ish, maybe).
Several times, I have done a 350 mile return trip (with a 5 hour stop at halfway). This involved 4 rapid charges, and I consistently had some minor throttling (worst was 28kwh) on the 4th rapid. All my driving was done at 60mph and charges were done from 20% to 80% as far as possible.

Also check out Lemon Tea Leaf's youtube videos. One of them he has shared a google drive sheet with throttle vs battery temperature at start of charge.
As battery voltage decreases when the level gets low, the current required to deliver the same power increases, and heat is a product of current times internal resistance. More current, more heat.
 
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