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Is rapidgate an issue with the latest ENV200?
Undertaking my first longish journey, Portsmouth to Croyde in Devon, circa 180 miles, and planning on 3 rapid charges en route.
2nd charge at Morristons Wincanton (Geniepoint ) kept dropping connection after 3 or 4 mins. Rang help desk who looked at the logs and the van was dropping the charge. They suggested it maybe rapidgate as they have seen this problem with other Nissans.

In addition I have added an AGM leisure battery as I am converting to a camper this is managed by a Victronic 121230 B2B.
I disconnected the 12v Aux battery from the B2B (removed the fuse) on the assumption that you should look at the last thing you did of you get an error.

Drove on for about 30mls and successfully charged at an Ecotricity station.

So.. Q's for anybody out there who is more knowledgeable than me!

1. Is rapidgate a problem on the new Env200? If so any solutions/workrounds?

2. Is this to do with the temp of the battery? The battery temp was about 2/3 up the scale. It was a hot day ambient temp circa 22 in the shade.

3. Does a long journey cause the batteries to heat up or is this only whilst charging?

4. Is the spilt charger etc likely to be a cause?

5.anything to fo with Geniepoint vs Ecotricity?

Thanks all
Chris
 

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I think all e-NV200 have a water cooled battery. My 2015 one definitely does and it never gets hot when rapid charging, compared to my leaf which goes right up into the red, on the 3rd rapid charge of my regular 325 mile journey.
 

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The software fix that sorts out the Leaf 40s wasn't applied to the vans. I don't know whether it is still the case. The cooling isn't good enough in the van for the more over heating prone 40 battery.

I think you really need leafspy and an OBD dongle to find out what is going on to be sure.
 

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The battery isn't water cooled - the system merely diverts the air conditioning around the battery. And there never was any software fix released for the eNV200. It's an issue which has been known about since the 40kWh version was launched 2 years ago, and has been mentioned here before and also on the eNV200 owners Facebook group. So yes, fast driving and rapid charging all heat up the battery, and once that happens the charging rate is throttled.

For some stupid reason Nissan altered the software so that the cooling fans don't operate as much as they do on the 24kWh version. In my old car, I once did 9 rapids in a day and it was only on the 7th that the temperature gauge stayed in the red and throttled the charging rate. When charging on a rapid with the 24kWh you knew that you could plug in, hear the fans start (and they'd run the whole time you were rapid charging) and see the temperature start to fall.

With the 40kWh one, that's not the case. I've had the fans start and then stop after 30 seconds despite the gauge being above the 50% line. The best way is to park, ensure the car is on, air conditioning off, and then plug in. If you turn the car off, the cooling to the battery either goes off, or runs at a lower level, but there's no logic to the process of either off or running at a lower level - it seems random! However, if the car is off, then you can be sure the battery isn't been cooled down much or at all.

Another option is to plug into a 7kW either immediately after stopping after a long drive or after you've been on a rapid. I've done that at Membury Services on the M4 where Ecotricity have a 7kW post next to their rapid. I've rapid charged for 40 minutes, and seen the temperature increase, moved across to the 7kW post for 10 minutes and then had the cooling fans start and had the temperature gauge then drop below 50%.

Lots of people have complained to Nissan about Rapidgate with no effect. I've even gone to the Motoring Ombudsman but the response is simply that that's the way the vehicle has been designed and therefore it's operating correctly.

Therefore to avoid heating up the battery too much, avoid fast motorway driving and also avoid regeneration as much as possible. So if you have to be on a motorway AND have a long trip involving multiple rapid chargers, keep the speed around 60 mph and drive very smoothly to avoid accelerating and decelerating. Nissan also have something in their algorithms about the number of rapid charges, so don't do lots of charging from 30% to only 60%, then doing 50 miles and rapid charging again - try to eek it out a bit more between rapids.

As to Geniepoint chargers, I haven't had any issues with them, so would think it was that specific charger which had a fault.
 

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1. Is rapidgate a problem on the new Env200? If so any solutions/workrounds?

Rapidgate is still an issue.As @srichards says, the 40kWh battery is more prone to it than the earlier 24kWh model. There are various threads on here with people complaining about it.

2. Is this to do with the temp of the battery? The battery temp was about 2/3 up the scale. It was a hot day ambient temp circa 22 in the shade.

Precisely - once the battery gets hot the software reduces the charging rate to prevent it from overheating. Note that "the software fix" applied to LEAF40's just allowed the battery to get hotter before throttling back the charge - IMHO it wan't a fix but they just risked battery life in order to make the complaints go away.

3. Does a long journey cause the batteries to heat up or is this only whilst charging?

Driving the vehicle, particularly quickly, causes the battery to heat up. The worst scenario is a fast motorway run to an MSA, straight onto a Rapid, then straight back up to speed. Various other cars use the AC to cool the battery in these circumstances, the NV200 hardly tries.

4. Is the spilt charger etc likely to be a cause?

Very unlikely to be the cause - the additional load in comparison to the main motor at high speeds is minimal.

5.anything to fo with Geniepoint vs Ecotricity?

The Rapid point doesn't monitor the cell temps or restrict the load (apart from its personal maximum), all of that is done by the vehicle. So I'd say that the particular Geniepoint had an issue.

Crosspost with @Flying Dodo who has more experience, but is giving similar answers.
 

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You are both right! The e-NV200 is connected to the AC system and has a patheticly small radiator inside the battery pack and a fan that blows air through that and hopes that it cools the cells - visible in the picture below:



Some lubrication system are described as "spit and hope" and this appears to be the battery cooling equivalent. It is so different from the system adopted by other manufacturers from Tesla though VAG to Hyundai that it really should NOT be called a battery thermal management system, and my view is that it may be more intended to keep the electonics of the BMS cool than the cells themselves. Not Nissan's finest hour. :rolleyes:
 

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According to someone who's just got Muxsan in the Netherlands to install a 19kWh add-on to his 40kWh van, Muxsan are working on a switch to enable you to manually switch on the cooling fans to run cool air into the battery. Assuming that's correct, you'd have to go to Delft of course, but it's a nice trip!
 

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You are both right! The e-NV200 is connected to the AC system and has a patheticly small radiator inside the battery pack and a fan that blows air through that and hopes that it cools the cells - visible in the picture below:



Some lubrication system are described as "spit and hope" and this appears to be the battery cooling equivalent. It is so different from the system adopted by other manufacturers from Tesla though VAG to Hyundai that it really should NOT be called a battery thermal management system, and my view is that it may be more intended to keep the electonics of the BMS cool than the cells themselves. Not Nissan's finest hour. :rolleyes:
I know what the problem is! They let the hamster escape that runs that fan!!!🤣🤣🤣

I find the worst things for my leaf 30 are fast accelerating using lots of power balls, air conditioner use and rapid charging from low to high (past 80% and mommas cookin!

Today was hot down south ! I knocked off 30% as I’m not driving for a few days and my temp stayed on 5 bars the whole time! Slow accelerating. If I drive fast I can whack my temp up in no time.
 

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STOP! The cats cannot stand anymore chamomile tea coming their way!!!
🤣🤣😂🤣😅😂😂🙀🙀😿😿😼😼☕☕☕
 

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Currently we are camping in the back garden with friends - all suitability Social Distanced. However the cats are very put out and resorting to scaling the tents as one up manship. So we're longer waterproof and praying for good weather. :ROFLMAO: 🐱🙀😸
 

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Currently we are camping in the back garden with friends - all suitability Social Distanced. However the cats are very put out and resorting to scaling the tents as one up manship. So we're longer waterproof and praying for good weather. :ROFLMAO: 🐱🙀😸
Cats always know and get their own back! Wait till you wake with a cat bum in your face! (Yes it’s happened to me!):poop:🤮🤢
 

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To be clear Rapidgate is slow charging due to heating up on long trip. This error is not Rapidgate.
You are both right! The e-NV200 is connected to the AC system and has a patheticly small radiator inside the battery pack and a fan that blows air through that and hopes that it cools the cells - visible in the picture below:



Some lubrication system are described as "spit and hope" and this appears to be the battery cooling equivalent. It is so different from the system adopted by other manufacturers from Tesla though VAG to Hyundai that it really should NOT be called a battery thermal management system, and my view is that it may be more intended to keep the electonics of the BMS cool than the cells themselves. Not Nissan's finest hour. :rolleyes:
The system appears to work very well on the 24 kWh van. Battery temp hardly ever comes up to 5/8.
 

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Muxsan are working on a switch to enable you to manually switch on the cooling fans to run cool air into the battery.
The battery on the eNV200 is sealed, no air enters or leaves it. As shown in the picture above there's a small condenser/radiator and hamster wheel fan to cool the electronics which itself is fed from the A/C. It has only a minimal effect on cooling the battery cells, particularly the rear stack which get hottest.
Emile is aware of all this but is of the view that ensuring the system can be run all the time is making the best of a bad job.
The thing that I find strange is that Muxsan don't feel the need to reinstate the cooling system used in the VW that they source their batteries from. :unsure: They take the brunt of the charging initially but clearly Emile is happy with the temperatures that they reach.
 

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The battery on the eNV200 is sealed, no air enters or leaves it. As shown in the picture above there's a small condenser/radiator and hamster wheel fan to cool the electronics which itself is fed from the A/C. It has only a minimal effect on cooling the battery cells, particularly the rear stack which get hottest.
Emile is aware of all this but is of the view that ensuring the system can be run all the time is making the best of a bad job.
The thing that I find strange is that Muxsan don't feel the need to reinstate the cooling system used in the VW that they source their batteries from. :unsure: They take the brunt of the charging initially but clearly Emile is happy with the temperatures that they reach.
Interesting - thanks very much for that. I can see now how sneaky Nissan were in dealing with my complaint about rapidgate, as going back through my emails, they've only ever referred to the "cooling of the system coming from refrigerant circulation", but never actually saying the circulation isn't through the battery pack at all!! The 40kWh pack clearly is a lot denser than the 24kWh which explains why the mickey mouse cooling just can't do much, as on the old one you really could see the temperature drop when rapid charging.
 

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The 40kWh pack clearly is a lot denser than the 24kWh
In two ways, the capacity in terms of kWh has increased whereas the volume of the pack is identical, and the amount of heat released during charging has increased meaning that more cooling is required.
which explains why the mickey mouse cooling just can't do much, as on the old one you really could see the temperature drop when rapid charging.
A system that just worked for the 24 because inadequate for the 40.
The frustrating part is that they had done the hard part in circulating the coolant into the battery case but haven't got it to where it's needed. Looking at the VW cases they use a tube and fin system like underfloor heating between their 8x12s modules in the GTE and similar in the e-Golf and seemingly the ID3.
 

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Interesting - thanks very much for that. I can see now how sneaky Nissan were in dealing with my complaint about rapidgate, as going back through my emails, they've only ever referred to the "cooling of the system coming from refrigerant circulation", but never actually saying the circulation isn't through the battery pack at all!! The 40kWh pack clearly is a lot denser than the 24kWh which explains why the mickey mouse cooling just can't do much, as on the old one you really could see the temperature drop when rapid charging.
The coolant does go through the battery pack, where it cooles air circulate by fan.

It seems Nissan have reduced the cooling operating times when clearly more not less is required. More fuss needs to be made to get this sorted.
 

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The coolant does go through the battery pack, where it cooles air circulate by fan.
I think the term through implies a bit more than into a heat exchanger at the front right and straight out again. :unsure: That the air is then "circulated" by a fan with no ducting when the problem in terms of the cells are at the other end of the pack implies that Nissan were either negligent or trying to solve another problem.
 

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As I recall leafspy gives access to the three individual temp sensors so I must look at them on my next trip.
 
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