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Hi folks,

I just contacted Nissan UK customer services (0330 123 1231) and asked for an update on the #rapidgate issue on the 40kWh Leaf. Their response essentially mirrors what Nissan USA said a few weeks back.

- They are now not recommending doing more than 2 rapid charges in a day, and have confirmed that the 3rd and subsequent rapid charges may see a reduction in charging rate.
- I noted that there were already reports this week of people experiencing lower charge rates on their second rapid of the day (see the experience of Grum in this thread); the response was that they hadn't seen this in the UK and that anyone experiencing such a problem on their second rapid should take their car to a dealer.
- I noted that one owner in the USA had experienced low charging rates on their first rapid charge, in 30'C ambient temperatures (hot, but not impossible for the UK); the response was that the cars are made differently in the USA so they can't comment on that.
- I asked if Nissan could guarantee a repair for anyone experiencing lower charge rates on their second or first rapid charge of the day, or if not whether they would accept in that situation the car is not fit for purpose; they could not guarantee this.
- They said that they have never recommended doing more than two rapid charges in a row; I noted that they have never recommended not doing so either, which is the key point.
- I noted that there had been no mention of the recommendation not do do more than two rapid charges in any of their sales literature; they said they would take that feedback on board.
- I also noted that they have seriously dropped the ball here, with a lot of people online cancelling their orders and much bad press against Nissan for what is otherwise a great (and really important) car. I pointed out that if they had been open about the limitation of the car from the outset, people would largely have accepted that and would have been able to make an informed decision on whether or not to order the car. Again they said they would take that feedback on board.

So, not a surprising response in some ways, but really disappointing. I now need to decide whether to cancel our order, or accept that it will only be a car with a limited radius for the kind of rapid charge waiting times that would be acceptable to us. It will be interesting to see whether Nissan are forced to take proper action once many people report reduced rapid charging rates on their second or even first charges of the day this summer - or if they just change their statement and tell us not to rapid charge more than once, or accept it will be slower when hot.

Not a very auspicious way to progress the EV movement or win over the doubters.
 

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A very predictable response. I'm not sure why anyone would expect anything else to be honest. They knew about it all the time. The real mistake was not being up front about it in the first place with potential customers so they could make an informed buying decision.
 

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I certainly wouldn't consider any Nissan now.

If they'd said in the beginning in the brochure that rapid charging will be slowed from the second rapid charge on then I'd think customers would know whether it was suitable or not. Saying nothing and letting people find out the hard way is disgraceful.

A few users having a slowed first charge is going to really knacker the Leaf's image in the UK. Anyone that uses the car heavily for several days in hot weather is potentially going to clang into this if the heat dissipation isn't quite good enough.
 

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Yes, I think that they should have done tests and been clear about these limitations. If you only get limited on the 3rd rapid, then that's around 130+100+100=330 miles. Not an issue for most people, but it's not good if people are finding this out after having bought the car.

I wonder if it is possible to "mitigate" the problem by only rapid charging between 20 and 80% or limiting the speed. It would be interesting to know more about what conditions cause the battery to heat up faster in order to avoid those on long journeys.
 

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It would be interesting to know more about what conditions cause the battery to heat up faster in order to avoid those on long journeys.
Average power dissipation.

So if you drive more economically (better miles/kWh) then it will cause less overall heating of the battery.
 

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I doubt if car buyers would be impressed if any brand new car is incapable of sitting at 70mph on the motorway for a few hours in a day. If it can't manage that then it's a city car only and should be advertised as such. Even the VW Up and all the other tiny city cars can manage motorway speeds without an issue. They don't over heat or get speed limited or suddenly have an issue with filling up slowly at a petrol station.

It's a poor reflection on EVs frankly.
 

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The thing is though, it’s not just the slowing of the charge rate, it’s that the battery pack gets hot and stays hot.
That can’t be good for the longevity of the pack (based on what we saw on the original leaf in very hot climates).

My e-NV200 has battery cooling, there shouldn’t be a reason not to have done it on the new leaf.

I’d be waiting till Leaf 3 comes out next year as it has been said it’ll have thermal battery management.
 

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I certainly wouldn't consider any Nissan now.
I've been saying this for a couple of weeks now. What with this issue and the total lack of any discount for cash purchase means that I may now never consider another Nissan Leaf.
 
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Yes, I think that they should have done tests and been clear about these limitations. If you only get limited on the 3rd rapid, then that's around 130+100+100=330 miles. Not an issue for most people, but it's not good if people are finding this out after having bought the car.

I wonder if it is possible to "mitigate" the problem by only rapid charging between 20 and 80% or limiting the speed. It would be interesting to know more about what conditions cause the battery to heat up faster in order to avoid those on long journeys.
Been 'chatting' with a Leaf driver on twitter this morning about exactly this. What is the point of owning a bigger battery Leaf if you have to manage poorly designed battery thermal management by only using half the battery on longer journeys. You're effectively left trying keep between 20 & 75% and therefore driving with a 22kWh car after the first rapid charge. You'd be better in a 30kWh leaf.

It's immensely disappointing that Nissan haven't been prepared to face this head on and sort it quickly. It will get out into the wider public domain over the next few months and tarnish the reputation of EVs in general. The Leaf would be an expensive car for many families and would be their main family car. Who's going to buy a car if they hear they can't use it for the family holiday because the battery overheats. No reports in the tabloids are going to say 'It's ok as you can aim to keep the charges between 20 & 80%' - those reports will slate the car and likely be very anti-EV.
 

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On longer journeys the battery size does become somewhat unimportant. As long as you can find rapids close enough on your trip, it's charging power and efficiency that's important. That's why an Ioniq is better than a Bolt if you're driving far. Charging above 80% is never a good idea, if you want to be as fast as possible.

Battery size is important for shorter and medium trips, though.
 

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The Leaf would be an expensive car for many families and would be their main family car. Who's going to buy a car if they hear they can't use it for the family holiday because the battery overheats. .
WTF apart from the odd weekend break "holidays" in the UK? Been married 11 years, been with the wife for 14 years, have had kids for 10 years. Guess how many times we holidayed in the UK? Zero!

As the wife says, poor peoples problems, as long as it can get us to any on the London airports and back to fly off to £5k+ worth of beach holiday, then all is good. And as I would say a £25k motor is out of reach of poor people, it's actually a "tight" persons problem, and as it cant tow a caravan even they are excluded. So it's a very tight persons problem regarding holidays. lol.
 

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I've been saying this for a couple of weeks now. What with this issue and the total lack of any discount for cash purchase means that I may now never consider another Nissan Leaf.
I feel the same,Nissan have totally screwed this one up,i would also not consider any more of their cars because of their handling of this issue and the damage it will cause to EVs in general when the Oil industry pick up on this story and run with it showing how crap EVs really are and should be avoided.Its a nice car for sure but the battery is absolutely everything that makes or breaks it,in this day and age compromises are just not acceptable,,that car needs to be able to charge and drive all day long without any issues,its just not good enough.
 

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WTF apart from the odd weekend break "holidays" in the UK? Been married 11 years, been with the wife for 14 years, have had kids for 10 years. Guess how many times we holidayed in the UK? Zero!

As the wife says, poor peoples problems, as long as it can get us to any on the London airports and back to fly off to £5k+ worth of beach holiday, then all is good. And as I would say a £25k motor is out of reach of poor people, it's actually a "tight" persons problem, and as it cant tow a caravan even they are excluded. So it's a very tight persons problem regarding holidays. lol.
Go to Portsmouth Ferry Port in the summer and see how just how many of those "poor people" are driving on their "poor people" holidays. Now see how many of those "poor people" are driving BMWs, Mercs, Jags and Volvos.

It's not just "poor people" that drive on holiday. A couple of weeks in a villa in the Dordogne or Vendee, plus return Western-Channel ferry fares can easily top £4k. Every day during high season thousands of these "poor people" are doing just that.
 

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that car needs to be able to charge and drive all day long without any issues,its just not good enough.
We already have BEV that do this, you just cant afford one. As the Leaf 60 and new Hyundai's will be more expensive still with 60kwh batteries with expensive active battery management, they may be out of your reach too.

BEV ice replacements for the masses at cheap prices are a decade or more away. Those that can afford BEVs now need those that cant paying fuel duty and vat taxes in their ICE cars until the loss to the revenue is so great they will introduce pence per mile taxes for all cars so it won't matter anymore.
 

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Go to Portsmouth Ferry Port in the summer and see how just how many of those "poor people" are driving on their "poor people" holidays. Now see how many of those "poor people" are driving BMWs, Mercs, Jags and Volvos.

It's not just "poor people" that drive on holiday. A couple of weeks in a villa in the Dordogne or Vendee, plus return Western-Channel ferry fares can easily top £4k. Every day during high season thousands of these "poor people" are doing just that.
But why not fly and use your other expensive car just for your holiday home when you arrive. And I forget, what models of BEV are these BMW, Merc, Jag and Volvo's these people are using to holiday in Europe? I'm sure you meant to add Tesla too, but why would these people suddenly get the urge to buy a Nissan?
 

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Yeah, the Leaf 30, which can charge and drive all day long. Very affordable, too.
And only fits the lifestyle of people who are incontinent and need to stop for a 45 min piss break every 80 miles! do they come with a free drivers pack of flat cap, tartan blanket and old style glass thermos for every buyer?
 
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