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See https://www.transportenvironment.or...s_Analytics_plug-in_hybrid_testing_report.pdf

Greg Archer, UK director of Transport & Environment, said “The real world CO2 emissions of PHEVs are little better on average than conventional hybrid cars and can be significantly worse. Far too many PHEV drivers are attracted by the low rates of company car taxes and can’t be bothered to regularly charge them, leading to the shockingly high emissions observed in T&E’s tests. Company car taxes on PHEVs should rise, it is counterproductive to encourage PHEVs that frequently do more harm than good; and undermine sales of zero emission battery electric cars."

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Big heavy plug-in hybrids use lots of petrol when their batteries are depleted shock....
Very happy for company car tax to rise on big heavy plug-in hybrids, although they'll already be paying a fair amount in taxes on the petrol, if they're stupid enough not to plug in.
 

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Nissan LEAF30
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Can't believe that they don't want to benefit from pre-heating such that they fail to plug in.
But SUVs are an abomination and should be taxed out of existence.
 

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Hardly surprising. All vehicles, if not driven at the painfully slow testing regime and not up hills, fail the tests. WLTP is an improvement but not representative of how actual drivers drive.
 

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See https://www.transportenvironment.or...s_Analytics_plug-in_hybrid_testing_report.pdf

Greg Archer, UK director of Transport & Environment, said “The real world CO2 emissions of PHEVs are little better on average than conventional hybrid cars and can be significantly worse. Far too many PHEV drivers are attracted by the low rates of company car taxes and can’t be bothered to regularly charge them, leading to the shockingly high emissions observed in T&E’s tests. Company car taxes on PHEVs should rise, it is counterproductive to encourage PHEVs that frequently do more harm than good; and undermine sales of zero emission battery electric cars."

View attachment 137588
I'll bet those emissions re still significantly lower than the petrol versions of the same cars.

Should look it up really.

Driving a tank is always going to be less environmentally friendly!
 

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Nissan LEAF30
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I'll bet those emissions re still significantly lower than the petrol versions of the same cars.
I doubt it - if they are using the ICE to both power the car and charge the battery you'd not expect it to produce less emissions than the ICE driving the car alone.
 

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VW e-Up! 2020
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Why not? "Self-charging" hybrid auris/yaris/kona are quite a bit more efficient than petrol-only versions.
 

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I always find these things a bit tenuous. If i get ANY vehicle and drive it "like i stole it" for example, it will emit significantly more CO2 than the test regime. How you actually drive the car makes a huge difference to fuel consumption and thus emissions, and not only driving style but journey length and various other factors. I used to own a 330d. On my commute, it would return about 42mpg. If the wife used it for work it was in the low 30s, because it was all short journeys and never running hot.

The test regime is supposed to be a level playing field to compare vehicles, not some sort of hard limit that the vehicle never exceeds.

Put a caravan behind the X5 PHEV and see what its CO2 output does then....

Granted, the Test regime for PHEV's probably isnt perfect, but how can it ever be? You cannot design a standard test that looks like how a typical person might use it, because everyones usage will be different. Some owners might run it on battery for every journey. Others might never charge it.
 

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I doubt it - if they are using the ICE to both power the car and charge the battery you'd not expect it to produce less emissions than the ICE driving the car alone.
The Outlander uses an engine that can operate in Atkinson cycle, which is more efficient, so they may produce less emissions.

What is happening is exactly what you'd predict given the BIK tax advantage for these cars - some people have reported the charging cable never having been opened when they bought the car s/h.

My daughter is looking to buy/lease one as her commute is about 24 miles and I'd say she'd make good use of the plug-in. My brother has just ended the lease on one, and the servicing garage told him he was doing only about 10% of his travel on petrol. So, it does work for some.
 

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Why not? "Self-charging" hybrid auris/yaris/kona are quite a bit more efficient than petrol-only versions.
Yes, but that was not the test done. The test done was to run the PHEV with a flat battery in battery charging mode where the ICE is not just driving the car but also charging the battery as fast as possible.

As always these reports have an agenda, and this one clearly is that "hybrids are bad". Apart from

I know someone who had a Passat GTE. He wouldn't plug it in as work gave him a fuel car but wouldn't pay for his electricity..
most PHEV users will make some use of mains electricity to charge their battery, and even that person was running in a "self-charging" manner sort of like a Toyota without the extra load on the ICE to continually charge a flat battery.
 

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I can see the Toyota lobbyists clutching at this to support their argument that they should be able to sell their "self charging" hybrids from 2030 to 2035 alongside PHEVs :rolleyes:

As others have said, there are no doubt company car users who don't charge but I am sure many do. Our Outlander friends bought privately and do at least 80% of their miles on electric - the wife is a personal trainer and all clients are within EV range. Being self-employed she can claim 45p a mile for those trips too (y)
 
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BMW have also fitted a decent 24KWH pack to that X5. So as PHEV's go, its actually got a fairly decent electric range, meaning assuming the owner does charge it, its got a reasonable chance of doing quite a lot of miles on electric. Yes, its big and inefficent because its an SUV, but clearly its better than a diesel one!
 

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So what we're saying is that a few (?) highly paid twats, who really don't give a fig about anything other than making money, are ruining the reputation of PHEVs which in the right hands can act as EVs nearly 90% of the time, keep garages in some work, and completely remove range anxiety, as well as acting as an excellent introduction to the idea of electric driving, removing all the bad points of EVs such as caravan towing, lack of home charging, stop the death of many kids whilst on EV mode in the city, and currently allow you to buy second hand a £50k car for less than the price of a Nissan Leaf ?
 

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Granted, the Test regime for PHEV's probably isnt perfect, but how can it ever be?
Run it once with a full battery and once with a flat battery, and publish both sets of results. If you want to be really mean, charge BIK at the "flat battery" results rate unless you can submit proof of charging above some minimum requirement. People that abuse the system stop getting a lower BIK rate, people that do it properly still get the lower BIK rate, but with the hassle of slightly more admin each tax year.

Incidentally, VW have MPG (but not emissions) results for a flat battery run of the Passat GTE. Couldn't find it on the website or marketing fluff though, but the sales guy sent it to me:
Screenshot 2020-11-24 132716.png
Screenshot 2020-11-24 132720.png
 

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I don't get how a PHEV running in eMode, can emit CO2 ?
In this mode, the ICE isn't running - right ?????

I've owned Prius, AurisHSD, Golf GTE and now a Kona, so I have reasonable experience of the range of EVs from FullH to PHEV and BEV.

Unless the particular tested vehicles don't have a pure eMode where the ICE is locked out unless you really bury the accelerator way down beyond kickdown.
If they have a trigger point which is anything above slight pressure ( I refer to the Toyotas as an example of this) then yes they'd generate CO2 in "eMode".

Additionally the fuel consumption when battery is flat - in the VAG PHEV products the first few miles after you have taken the HV down to zero range, the car tries to recharge it to 3miles EV GOM range whilst also propelling the vehicle.
My experience of this was mpg in the 30s. This is the number also quoted by motoring magazines as I believe they'd run the HV to zero, reset the trip computers, drive for 10-15mins and log that mpg value.

However 20mins later when the car was still in "hybrid" mode, and it was then running as a Full Hybrid, the mpg on a long run was easily upper 50s. CO2 in the first few miles terrible, CO2 in the normal Full Hybrid running would be the same as a Prius.
Doing a 60+mile trip I'd always trigger my Golf into full hybrid mode as soon as possible (where the engine is under slight load for 5mins to warm it up, ie no lights, jammed junctions), then when I got to range to charger away from a charger I'd trigger it to eMode and use the electrons all up. I'd get into 60mpg including major city centre and motorways. ie Wales<>Portsmouth
Granted a lot of PHEV owners can't be this arsed.

I have a slight feeling someone started with an outcome and picked/tested vehicles that showed it.
Why weren't any other PHEVs in the test ?
 

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I don't get how a PHEV running in eMode, can emit CO2 ?
In this mode, the ICE isn't running - right ?????
Unless the particular tested vehicles don't have a pure eMode where the ICE is locked out unless you really bury the accelerator way down beyond kickdown.
That's how the test works. Also don't forget that the "electric" miles are using a "well to wheel" CO2 equivalent for the electricity generation.
I have a slight feeling someone started with an outcome and picked/tested vehicles that showed it.
Agreed. Toyota or Tesla?
 

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Leaf 30kWh, HS PHEV
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But they'll end up on the used market where the private buyer will be more likely to plug-in.

I know someone who had a Passat GTE. He wouldn't plug it in as work gave him a fuel car but wouldn't pay for his electricity..
I picked up used Outlander 6 months ago and it gets plugged in every night. Yes it occasionally starts the engine and is all very annoying But I’ve managed 1600 miles since I last filled up and petrol tank still has 1/4th left


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Leaf 30kWh, HS PHEV
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That's how the test works. Also don't forget that the "electric" miles are using a "well to wheel" CO2 equivalent for the electricity generation.

Agreed. Toyota or Tesla?
Based on my calculations of wall to wheel
Leaf30: 3.3 miles/kWh
Outlander: 2.8 miles/kWh

I agree PHEV is lugging extra weight and isn’t best of both worlds but they are cheaper than pure electric equivalent


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A slight variation on this I purchased a 2017 outlander phev and am importing it into Ireland 🇮🇪 I had to obtain a Certificate of conformity from Mitsubishi UK with this I can get a discount on the Vehicle Registration Tax (to register the car in Ireland) because it states the Nox emissions at 3.3 Mg/KM of nearly €600 euro its my wife's car 🚗 she plugs it in every night so every 50km travelled costs €1.05 as its charged on night rate.
 
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