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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Has anyone measured the real world:

1. miles per UK gallon in pure petrol mode (battery at 0%)
2. kWH/mile (or whichever unit you prefer) in 100% pure electric mode
-or-
3. range

Please assume average conditions or state conditions (e.g. if aircon on, mostly motorway etc).

If I buy, I'd likely be buying second hand PHEV 2015-2018 model year. Where we live winters are very mild. We probably would use heating 10%, aircon 40%, nothing 50%.

I am a bit confused because one website said that the electric battery cannot power aircon/heating (i.e. petrol is always being used) while others seem to have it differently since they said it affects the kWH/mile. Can anyone clarify.

Also, the official site says the battery is 12kWH. But, is that what you can really access, i.e. 12kWH between when it says 100% and 0%. Another website said it was 13.8kWH but with 11kwH usable?

Thanks for anyone that can help with any of these points, PHEVs are a bit more confusing when instead of giving the data you need people state meaningless useless stats like 90 miles per gallon without saying how much of that was electric and how much petrol.
 

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Outlander PHEV App - EvBatMon.
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Has anyone measured the real world:

1. miles per UK gallon in pure petrol mode (battery at 0%)
Here in Australia I get at best 6.7 litres/100km and at worst about 9 (that was with 4 people, 2 kayaks, 4 bikes and a headwind). Around town and freeway are both about 7litres/100k with just driver.

With our new battery, about 47km actual range. Here in Australia quite a few owners have had their batteries replaced under warranty after they degraded > 20%.
 

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There are model /trim differences and spec changes year on year that have a bearing on how the heating works with or without the engine

Which model year and trim spec are you considering.
 

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Nissan LEAF30
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The aircon and heating can be run from the battery on the late 2015 onwards GX4H but the range will suffer. Ideally preheat (or cool) whilst connected to the mains.
Expect around 40 mpg driven at 70 mph ICE only, less if faster, and less if regular changes in speed are required (M25 or urban).
Electric only range is about 30 on the flat, less if it's hilly or cold. If you keep most of your journeys below that you can see very high true MPG figures up to 100, but if you are someone who bought one as a tax break for a company car and rarely plugged it in, drove it like their previous Audi, then they will have seen 30 MPG and missed the point.
IMHO they are surprisingly good for occasional but not regular towing - economy unsurprisingly is poor compared to a turbo diesel once the small amount of energy in the battery is used up and you end up with a relatively small petrol engine doing all the work.
All of which is a long way of saying what will your usage profile be? Mine ended up suiting a BEV and hiring something for the rare events I need something bigger, but a PHEV is a step in the right direction.
 

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richi.uk
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All model years have electric aircon, in all variants.
All model years have electric heat available, but base variants don't include it (i.e., the "gx3h" variant, which might go by different names).

I get 35–40 mph at a steady 70 mph in SAVE mode (i.e., not using net battery charge).
The dash screen ("MMCS") in my car typically reports EV economy around 3 miles/kWh.
(My car is a late-2014 gx4hs with 105,000 miles.)

BTW, if you can find a '4hs or '5hs, go for it. The 's' variants include ADAS safety features (e.g., radar cruise); they have a lower/cheaper insurance group as a result.
 

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Also, the official site says the battery is 12kWH. But, is that what you can really access, i.e. 12kWH between when it says 100% and 0%. Another website said it was 13.8kWH but with 11kwH usable?
The original model (c2014-2017) had a 12kWh battery. But only about 9kWh of this is 'useable'. I.e. there is a buffer of about 3kWh (actually about 30%) at the bottom which you can't normally access unless you try teally hard. From c2018 on, the battery size was increased to 13.8kWh (and the petrol engine from 2.0 litres to 2.4, at least in European models). I presume this still has a 30% buffer at the bottom but I can't say for certain.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks for the miles/km per gallon/litre posts, they are useful, since your average feedback was higher than what I had from other sources, such as what it says in the Which report tests.

Jeremy Cooper, battery degradation of over 20% means range degradation of over 20% I assume, can that happen in 2-3 years or more like 5+?

freddym, the model years we would look at would be 2015-2018 and the trim probably the most basic.

dk6780, the usage profile is a lot of short journeys to go back and forth to school and local shopping, with some mid length journeys to visit family and the mall, and only occassionally long journeys - a couple of year. I did a calculation and we can probably use the electric for 70% of the miles by charging away from the home where possible (and still 60% if we only charge at home). Our profile does fit a BEV, but my wife is hesitant to ditch the SUV lifestyle she's used to, and available pure electric SUVs are not affordable.

jdsx, that makes sense about the 12kwH not being usable, because when I calculated the kWH/mile on the assumption of a 12kwH battery and the known range, the figures looked very inefficient compared to other electric cars, even allowing for the fact that it's an SUV. If only 9kwH is being used, it all makes more sense.

This is a bit of a long shot but I don't suppose anyone has ever seen a study of the carbon footprint of this particular car in its production, or has made an estimate somehow.
.
 

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Outlander PHEV App - EvBatMon.
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Jeremy Cooper, battery degradation of over 20% means range degradation of over 20% I assume, can that happen in 2-3 years or more like 5+?
Tested real world range of our PHEV had dropped from about 47km down to 34km (ie 28% drop in range). Car was 4.5 years old when the battery was replaced. I think the Australian situation is quite unique, over in Europe degradation has been much less of an issue (except for a few I've heard of like "Anko" who towed a 1350kg caravan all around Europe for > 100,000km)
 

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richi.uk
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The car will allow you to discharge to ~20% before turtle. Engine kicks in automatically between ~25–30%, depending on how much power you're demanding from your right foot and from the climate control.

The 16-segment battery gauge shows 25–100%, so each blob is a bit less than five percentage points.
 

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Nissan LEAF30
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Our profile does fit a BEV, but my wife is hesitant to ditch the SUV lifestyle she's used to, and available pure electric SUVs are not affordable.
At least you have thought it through. MG ZS will be available cheaply on the 2nd hand market in a few years time so try to move her thinking that way.
 

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If you need the space or towing facilities offered by the Outlander PHEV then there is little available choice in the BEV marketplace. If you can live with less space or don’t need towing then you do have options.
 

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freddym, the model years we would look at would be 2015-2018 and the trim probably the most basic.

dk6780, the usage profile is a lot of short journeys to go back and forth to school and local shopping, with some mid length journeys to visit family and the mall, and only occassionally long journeys - a couple of year. I did a calculation and we can probably use the electric for 70% of the miles by charging away from the home where possible (and still 60% if we only charge at home). Our profile does fit a BEV, but my wife is hesitant to ditch the SUV lifestyle she's used to, and available pure electric SUVs are not affordable.
The main downside with the 'basic' model is that it doesn't have an electric heater. So on a cold morning, the only way to heat the car is by starting the engine, which is slow and wastes fuel. Every other model allows you to pre-heat the car using a combination of the drive battery and the charger. If you leave it for a few minutes, an EVSE charger can nearly refill the drive battery. So you can set off in a warm car with cleared windows, which is more economical as well as being more pleasant.

Your predicted usage is the same as ours. We already had a Zoe EV for SWMBO to commute into the city every day and I work from home a lot, so the PHEV is for local journeys and occasional longer trips to take kids and loads of stuff to uni and to visit relatives. At the price range we were looking at, a (then) 3-year-old PHEV was the only car that fitted the bill. There weren't any BEVs that fit, and there still aren't many at that price range.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
The car will allow you to discharge to ~20% before turtle. Engine kicks in automatically between ~25–30%, depending on how much power you're demanding from your right foot and from the climate control.

The 16-segment battery gauge shows 25–100%, so each blob is a bit less than five percentage points.
Thanks for this, I'm assuming turtle is when the cars starts crawling along to preserve battery and there's no way you can make it to a normal, higher speed. I'm assuming this is when the petrol tank is empty in addition to the electric battery being down at 20%. I'm assuming that the unusable portion of the battery is at the bottom (it won't let you go to 0%) rather than the top (i.e. if it wouldn't let you charge to 100%.

If these assumptions are correct then.....

So if the battery is 12kW, and say only has a usable of 9kW (or 8.4kW if it's 30%) then the turtle comes in when you you are going into the unusable portion, when you've gone down from 12kW to say 3kW pr 3.6kW? Or do you mean it's starts to turtle when you have used 80% of the usable portion, meaning it might turtle at about 5kW.

Hope that makes sense. It's a bit tricky trying to get my head around it all.
 

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The battery shows 'empty' on the dash at 30% capacity. If you continue to draw too much power from the battery, it will continue to drop. If it gets too low it will display a tortoise/turtle on the screen and reduce the drive power available to protect the battery till the level has recovered. This happens however much petrol is in the tank, as it uses the ICE to recharge the battery.

Zero fuel and low battery is much less common, especially as the dash starts showing empty with 50-80 miles of range left.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
If anything the discussion in this thread is making me lean back towards the idea of a BEV, or pure electric, or full electric, or whatever you call it. Either way, it's useful.
 

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Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV Design 2.4
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On Tuesday travelled 97 miles 67 miles in pure petrol mode 12 of those miles was through Birmingham due to a diversion brim to brim fill exactly 38.5mpg.

2020 Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV
 

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Leaf 30kWh, Outlander PHEV
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I picked up 2017 Juro in June.

Motorway mileage 39 mpg (UK to Poland and back) 75-80 mph
Range 350 miles
Electric range 17-23 miles (speed dependent)

We have Leaf30 as primary car and Outlander as second car. This month so far I’ve managed 250 EV miles driving around town


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Outlander
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Stopped monitoring now but back in 2017:
  • 100% city was pure EV mode (I think the car itself reported a floor of 256 mpg?)
  • 50/50 city and motorway usage was touching 70 mpg
  • I used to achieve the the 5-leaf display (as per my avatar)
My driving is now too hurried to consider such things :(
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
I think I bought our Ioniq EV quite soon after this thread...I thought about the Outlander as perhaps the car that could suit both what we wanted: eco for me and size for her. But in the end I had calculated that buying an Outlander would not reduce the lifeycle carbon footprint much if at all vs staying with old petrol cars.

After this thread I had a chance to get an Ioniq EV for about £12,000. The reason it was so low I think was because it was a 2017 model with high mileage, a few cosmetic details, it was an ex rental car that had passed through so many hands, and also because they didn´t have a convincing paperwork trail to ensure the guarantee is still valid. Also at the time the economy was down and car lots were filling up.

So at that price I was able to change the way we look at it and look at buying one car each rather than one family car.

I suggested that I buy that for £12,000 and she have the same for whatever car she wanted, but it would judged to be the same total spend on a cost of ownership basis not up front cost. Meaning her budget would be about £8,000 if she went for a petrol car. She agreed to that.

The Outlanders are coming down a bit in price. She has considered getting it as her car. Since we got the Ioniq we put solar panels in and we have some spare energy we can´t sell to the grid, so we can charge it effectively for free if we buy it which would help a little. But it still seems a bit expensive.

EDIT: Just done a quick calculation. I think if the budget for an electric car is £12,000 and £8000 is the budget for a petrol car the equivalent for an Outlander, to lead to similar total cost of ownership over some years, would be about £10,500. Unfortunately they are at £13,000+ here (2015 car).
 
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