Horrible is an overstatement - no worse than any other FWD car, but with more power I agree it's a good move.
Yet BMW have gone FWD for the new 1-series.
Yet BMW have gone FWD for the new 1-series.
Rear Wheel Drive on Kia EV6 - Handling OK?
I watched the Fully Charged look at the EV6 earlier. I was disappointed to hear that the 2WD version will be rear wheel drive. Am I just being old fashioned in not liking the idea of a rear wheel drive car? My most recent experience of that was a friend who gave up on a RWD BMW one winter into owning it as he couldn't control it in even moderately slippery conditions. Is there anything about an EV that would make driving a RWD version any safer/more pleasant than an ICE equivalent?
I haven't watched anything on the Hyundai 5 yet - is that the same?
I haven't watched anything on the Hyundai 5 yet - is that the same?
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Yeah, it went alright, but bear in mind, it wasnt new to me, i'd had it a while and was fairly comfortable with the performance. I didnt expect anything bad to happenin a 330d.... that might be your problem right there lol. I have to say a 330d is a blimmin quick car, also has a bit of turbo lag and then a thump of torque - so if you aren't in a straight line, flooring it isn't an option! Whereas my old 1970's Ford Escort Mk 1 1.3... .well flooring it then didn't result in much happening at all!!
I too have had those moments - one of mine in a Ford Capri, a roundabout and the damp.... ooooh that was interesting....
However modern traction controls make all that pretty much irrelevant - Ferrari for example have tuned it so even an amateur could hold a dramatic drift!!
The reality is, a well sorted EV can meter it's power very progressively - combine that with modern stability controls, and I think the simple answer is, FWD or RWD will be safe - RWD should be able to be "nicer" to drive.
99% of the time you could indeed just give it a good bootful and it would just get on with it. The traction control on that car was nothing short of amazing.But yeah, modern stability control and whatnot means its just not an issue any more.
One imagines its the usual packaging and space constraints. In its market segment it was the only RWD model and cabin space suffered as a result. their new platform also offers hybrid and 4wd options by adding a rear drive arrangement as well, i guess similar to the 225xe.Yet BMW have gone FWD for the new 1-series.
It was following “extensive research” that showed their customers didn’t know which end was actually powered......
I can believe it for the 1 series - I think most 3 series owners might be different!
I can believe it for the 1 series - I think most 3 series owners might be different!
I live in a hilly area. One BMW RWD and two Alfa RWD's all had spare set of wheels with winter tyres fitted (usually Nov to March).
Never had an issue. On winters they drove better than most 4 x 4's.
Never had an issue. On winters they drove better than most 4 x 4's.
A lot of even “proper” 4x4’s come on low profile road tyres - useless in snow.
Also there are very few RWD cars now, and they tend to be powerful, for which reason again see ultra low profile very wide tyres.
What you want in snow is narrow tall profile tyres at a lower psi (I went down to 25psi on the ML in mud and snow, and they had a deep cut tread, and soft rubber (not too soft, they were all seasons tyres) - swear that thing would have crossed anything in low range.
Also there are very few RWD cars now, and they tend to be powerful, for which reason again see ultra low profile very wide tyres.
What you want in snow is narrow tall profile tyres at a lower psi (I went down to 25psi on the ML in mud and snow, and they had a deep cut tread, and soft rubber (not too soft, they were all seasons tyres) - swear that thing would have crossed anything in low range.
When I did a skid pan course a few years back (highly recommended if you never have, and great fun) the outfit used worn, overinflated tyres on a wet, smooth track for genuine loss of control. i was paired up with a 17 year old who’s parents had brought her along to give her some “handling the car when it goes wrong” experience. After a few goes round the track we were both managing to control fwd car nicely, getting round the wet corner at pretty high speeds. Instructor seemed impressed and said we should both try rallying 😆
meanwhile some fellas in the rwd option never did manage to get round the track... not once.
meanwhile some fellas in the rwd option never did manage to get round the track... not once.
RWD on the tyres you describe on a skid pan will be more fun and way more of a handful. However with practice and some skill, a RWD could be glided round way more balletically than a FWD which would just plough on understeer.
RWD does need more understanding and skill to drive well, but for most drivers, the Stability Control means it makes little difference now to the safety, but lots to the “feel”
RWD does need more understanding and skill to drive well, but for most drivers, the Stability Control means it makes little difference now to the safety, but lots to the “feel”
I have just realised how old I am as i though it was old fashioned to think that FWD were a new fangled and short lived innovation. It was not all that long ago (to me) that it was an accepted truth that FWD was fine but only for cars less then 100 bhp. Whilst I have driven and owned many FWD cars I have always had a RWD as my main transport and the current one is an I3s.
First ever front driver (mass produced) Citroën Traction Avant - 1934......
So not the newest thing - but it was probably the Mini that started the switch.
In 1980 a Saab engineer famously said "No-one will ever be able to put more than 200hp through the front wheels - it just can't be done".
So not the newest thing - but it was probably the Mini that started the switch.
In 1980 a Saab engineer famously said "No-one will ever be able to put more than 200hp through the front wheels - it just can't be done".
That's the one, whats 100bhp between friends. Yes I know that FWD isn't new but when the Sierra and the Cavalier (mk1) were the kings of the the road FWD was still thought of as small car thing. I remember the 1982 Audi 100 being the first big FWD drive car that I drove and it feeling rather strange to have mini like handling habits in something that big.In 1980 a Saab engineer famously said "No-one will ever be able to put more than 200hp through the front wheels - it just can't be done".
Audi 100 was an understeering pig - it really wasn't "Mini like"......
I had a couple of RWD Mk1 Cavaliers and my Mercedes was RWD, drive sensibly and they aren't a problem and these days with driver aids you really shouldn't drive like a numpty. Old school drivers knew how to drive and deal with skids, it is all part of being a competent driver.
No doubt... and I quite fancied a go, may yet do sometime... however, what I took from that is it’sRWD on the tyres you describe on a skid pan will be more fun and way more of a handful. However with practice and some skill, a RWD could be glided round way more balletically than a FWD which would just plough on understeer.
RWD does need more understanding and skill to drive well, but for most drivers, the Stability Control means it makes little difference now to the safety, but lots to the “feel”
less about what’s possible in the right hands and what average drivers can actually manage.
I still like the Top Gear explanation.... understeer is where the car goes forwards through the wall, into the tree and you die. Oversteer is where the car goes backwards through the wall, into tree and you die. Oversteer is therefore better because you don’t the tree coming.
..And a drift puts you into a wall, tree or, if you're lucky, a hedge sideways. In all cases, driver's lack of skill.No doubt... and I quite fancied a go, may yet do sometime... however, what I took from that is it’s
less about what’s possible in the right hands and what average drivers can actually manage.
I still like the Top Gear explanation.... understeer is where the car goes forwards through the wall, into the tree and you die. Oversteer is where the car goes backwards through the wall, into tree and you die. Oversteer is therefore better because you don’t the tree coming.
@Harry_Zoe I also remember how many people used to be afraid of RWD cars, but I don't think there is anything to fear in today's cars, given how the electronic gizmos have become much more advanced in terms of preventing you from doing something silly when driving.
Regarding your friend's experience in slippery conditions, I've been driving FWD and RWD cars for a couple of decades, even before traction control, and imho, it's about driving according to the weather and road conditions, I've rarely had issues even in V8 powered RWD cars. I have 443 lb ft in my PHEV going through the rear wheels and whether it's rain, snow or shine, the car's handling is fine, provided I stay within the car's limits in each particular situation. A lot of drivers seem to drive the same whether it's raining, icy or a warm summer's day. Luckily, many modern cars stability systems are so intrusive in how they brake/cut the power that it can be difficult for even a very careless driver to spin out of control.
I would prefer a RWD EV over a FWD EV for a number of reasons;
1. Tighter turning circle (as ID3 and ID4 have managed to achieve)
2. The feeling of being pushed by the rear wheels, rather than being pulled by the front wheels
3. Front wheels can focus on steering alone (possibly a purer more connected experience)
4. Problem free quick getaways, junctions, roundabouts etc - would not want all that power/torque in an EV going through front wheels
Regarding your friend's experience in slippery conditions, I've been driving FWD and RWD cars for a couple of decades, even before traction control, and imho, it's about driving according to the weather and road conditions, I've rarely had issues even in V8 powered RWD cars. I have 443 lb ft in my PHEV going through the rear wheels and whether it's rain, snow or shine, the car's handling is fine, provided I stay within the car's limits in each particular situation. A lot of drivers seem to drive the same whether it's raining, icy or a warm summer's day. Luckily, many modern cars stability systems are so intrusive in how they brake/cut the power that it can be difficult for even a very careless driver to spin out of control.
I would prefer a RWD EV over a FWD EV for a number of reasons;
1. Tighter turning circle (as ID3 and ID4 have managed to achieve)
2. The feeling of being pushed by the rear wheels, rather than being pulled by the front wheels
3. Front wheels can focus on steering alone (possibly a purer more connected experience)
4. Problem free quick getaways, junctions, roundabouts etc - would not want all that power/torque in an EV going through front wheels
Ah yes I inherited a Saab 900 turbo company car some 20 years later than that.In 1980 a Saab engineer famously said "No-one will ever be able to put more than 200hp through the front wheels - it just can't be done".
It was abundantly clear that the Saab had still not figured out how to do that but they went ahead and did it anyway.
Not only Saab - remember the Maestro / Montego Turbo..Ah yes I inherited a Saab 900 turbo company car some 20 years later than that.
It was abundantly clear that the Saab had still not figured out how to do that but they went ahead and did it anyway.
Thankfully never drove one of those... I can only imagine driving aMontego turbo 😱 Did the driver get a free supply of nappies?Not only Saab - remember the Maestro / Montego Turbo..
Maybe, or he must have had very large gonads.Thankfully never drove one of those... I can only imagine driving aMontego turbo 😱 Did the driver get a free supply of nappies?
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