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'18 Zoe ZE 40 R110 + '21 VW ID.4 1st
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Anyone know what this is, or why I'd want to use it? I charge off a 3-pin in my garage, and I noticed when I plugged my ID.4 in for the first time yesterday it was pulling 250v @ ~8a, which seemed low. I was messing around with the interface, trying to learn the menus, and noticed on the charging screen there is a "Reduce AC charg. current" option which was switched on. When I turned that off my Ohme charge immediately showed 250v @9.9-10a, which is what I was used to with my Zoe. I'm not sure why I'd want to reduce the amps, unless maybe I need to charge off a dodgy plug?

142612


With that switched on:
142613


With it switched off:
142614
 

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Audi eTron 55
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You've answered your own question...mostly you'd use it because you want to charge off a dodgy plug (well, socket, really 馃槈). Or if you were using an extension lead of questionable provenance.
 

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It is also handy if you have solar - turning the charge current down may mean that you can get all the power from solar, running at maximum current may mean that you need to pull some power from the grid as well.

(This is what I do)
 

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'18 Zoe ZE 40 R110 + '21 VW ID.4 1st
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
You've answered your own question...mostly you'd use it because you want to charge off a dodgy plug (well, socket, really 馃槈). Or if you were using an extension lead of questionable provenance.
It is also handy if you have solar - turning the charge current down may mean that you can get all the power from solar, running at maximum current may mean that you need to pull some power from the grid as well.

(This is what I do)
That makes sense! Thanks! Honestly I was surprised to see 250v @ 10a being pulled from a regular socket - that 2.5 kW is a bit higher than I was told I could get. I am of course very interested to see how much of that is actually making it in the car. My Zoe gets around 85% charging efficiency off a 3-pin if I did my math right - it was pulling around 2.3 kW and the last time I did a full charge I think right around 2 kW was actually going into the battery.
 

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VW ID.3 58kWh
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Most of the granny chargers are rated 2.3kW max so your result at 2.5kW seems still within this bracket (taking into account some losses, meter indication errors etc.)
 

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VW Passat GTE
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The other thing is if there are other large consumers in the house when you're charging. Imagine somebody comes home, plugs in their EV to charge at 7kW, puts on their 4kW oven to make dinner, then decides to have a quick wash while the oven is preheating using their 10.5kW shower. That's 93A, which is OK if you're on a 100A feed (until you boil the kettle), but not so great if you're on an 80A feed. The reduced current option in my car sets it to 6A, so that would make the total usage 69A, so fine for an 80A or a 100A feed. Load balancing would fix this properly, but the reduced current option is a cheap alternative.
 

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MG ZS EV
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That makes sense! Thanks! Honestly I was surprised to see 250v @ 10a being pulled from a regular socket - that 2.5 kW is a bit higher than I was told I could get. I am of course very interested to see how much of that is actually making it in the car. My Zoe gets around 85% charging efficiency off a 3-pin if I did my math right - it was pulling around 2.3 kW and the last time I did a full charge I think right around 2 kW was actually going into the battery.
You are lucky to have 250v, I rarely get 235 which would be nearer to 2.3 kWh
 

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'18 Zoe ZE 40 R110 + '21 VW ID.4 1st
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
You are lucky to have 250v, I rarely get 235 which would be nearer to 2.3 kWh
Yeah, I was surprised to be getting that. I just checked this morning - it has been charging all night and is still pulling 2.45 kW (249v @ 9.9a). I felt the plug just in case - no warmth at all, completely room temp.
 

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Anyone know what this is, or why I'd want to use it? I charge off a 3-pin in my garage, and I noticed when I plugged my ID.4 in for the first time yesterday it was pulling 250v @ ~8a, which seemed low. I was messing around with the interface, trying to learn the menus, and noticed on the charging screen there is a "Reduce AC charg. current" option which was switched on. When I turned that off my Ohme charge immediately showed 250v @9.9-10a, which is what I was used to with my Zoe. I'm not sure why I'd want to reduce the amps, unless maybe I need to charge off a dodgy plug?

View attachment 142612

With that switched on:
View attachment 142613

With it switched off:
View attachment 142614
Wouldn't recommend using the 3 pin as your default charger. Proper care charger units have some safety systems built into them for DC leakage etc, and are designed to run at high power for hours on end. A 3 pin socket is not.
 

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ID.4 1st edition (previously Mitsubishi outlander PHEV)
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Anyone know what this is, or why I'd want to use it? I charge off a 3-pin in my garage, and I noticed when I plugged my ID.4 in for the first time yesterday it was pulling 250v @ ~8a, which seemed low. I was messing around with the interface, trying to learn the menus, and noticed on the charging screen there is a "Reduce AC charg. current" option which was switched on. When I turned that off my Ohme charge immediately showed 250v @9.9-10a, which is what I was used to with my Zoe. I'm not sure why I'd want to reduce the amps, unless maybe I need to charge off a dodgy plug?
Right I'm worried because you mentioned using the Ohme charger in the same sentence as the 3 pin plug!
If you are using a standard ohme charge and you've modified it and put on a 3 pin plug (trust me people do this) then I'm worried! You can cause a lot of damage.. read house fire!!!
OK I know you are using the 3pin ohme charger BUT using a click bait sentence to grab peoples attention... Dont modify chargers to work on 3pin plugs... whilst if can be done, it is stupidly dangerous; this is why they have qualified installers.

Quick basics about houses and the set up for electric supply.
The electic circuit is a ring main... all the sockets and plugs connected together in a loop. A 3 pin plug is designed to allow a max of 13A... the cable is typically 2.5mm rated at 24A in free air but lower if in the wall covered in plaster! and the fuse is likely to be a 32A. Being a ring main the current flows both ways around the loop so not all the current is on a single wire, unless it is a spur off the ring. (which is fine for a 13A socket in most cases)
Every socket has a connector which is a screw connector. This connection is a point of weakness and a potential problem if you are drawing max current for a long period of time. (not always tightened correctly so there is a potential to increase resistance due to limitted contect between wires and so it cant carry the max current... read it heads up at this point of connection)

So this means its not just the socket you plug into, its all the sockets in the ring main which are at potential fault.
Remeber its not 10 minutes its 10 hours you are drawing this current! Even an oven which can draw 20amps is only on for a few hours and that has a dedicated circuit designed for a higher current.

Personally I think of the 3pin charger as an emergency use case not the perminant use case for charging... its just maxing out your ring main and most houses havent been updated to latest regs to ensure they are safe to draw a sustained charge over that period of time. If you want to do this then put is a dedicated socket to support this, but then why not get a proper charge points anyway!

Actually I agree with VW and would suggest you reduce the current slightly so you dont max your circuit out in the house. This is (as someone said already) to protect you.

SIde point, if you use say an extension lead (most of which have 1.5mm cables and are rated at 10A not 13A) especially when people leave the cables coiled read this... (https://electronics.stackexchange.c... your cables contain the,will get warm or hot.)

So long story short...
3 pin plug chargers draw a lot of current for a long period of time, and can cause cables to heat up and not always at the point you plug in.
It is best to use a dediced charger on a dedicated circuit which is properly protected.
Reducing the current drawn to charge the car is a good thing for the house but an annoying thing for the car owner as the car takes longer to charge.
Main point... 3 pin charges dont have all the protection the dedicated chargers have... such as DC protection, the improved earthing protection, and in some houses an RCD!

Just be aware of these things. People dont realise that electrics are dangerous but not always for the obvious things.
 

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'18 Zoe ZE 40 R110 + '21 VW ID.4 1st
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Wouldn't recommend using the 3 pin as your default charger. Proper care charger units have some safety systems built into them for DC leakage etc, and are designed to run at high power for hours on end. A 3 pin socket is not.
Personally I think of the 3pin charger as an emergency use case not the perminant use case for charging...
I have seen this many times, but I have yet to see any proof this is the case... On the other hand, I have seen time and time again people who's only way of charging is off a granny cable, who have been doing it for years with no issues. I honestly believe it is just scare tactics at this point. I had an electrician look at the socket(s) I use, my house has modern electrics, and I've been charging my Zoe off a 3-pin since the day I got her - no issues. Every now and then I make sure to feel the plug after an extended charging session, and I've never felt it warm.

I am currently renting, and though our landlords have given permission to install a home charger, we will likely only be in this house for another year, maybe two at the most, and they've said we'd need to remove it when we go... 拢500 just isn't worth it when we'll have to pay to removed it when we leave...
 

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'18 Zoe ZE 40 R110 + '21 VW ID.4 1st
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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
Plenty of us have experience of melted plugs due to granny charging.

Even a Schuko which is rated to 13 amps.

Would you like pictures?
Fair enough, I believe you, I just honestly hadn't seen any first-person accounts of issues. My socket doesn't grow warm at all, and I check it frequently. Maybe I'll speak with the landlords about whether we can have a 7 kW charger installed and just leave it when we go - after all, EV chargers tend to increase, not decrease, home values...
 

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ID.4 1st edition (previously Mitsubishi outlander PHEV)
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Fair enough, I believe you, I just honestly hadn't seen any first-person accounts of issues. My socket doesn't grow warm at all, and I check it frequently. Maybe I'll speak with the landlords about whether we can have a 7 kW charger installed and just leave it when we go - after all, EV chargers tend to increase, not decrease, home values...
Actually my recommendation to you is to ask the landlord if you can have a circuit with a commando socket installed... this will be a dedicated circuit and give you the ability to plug the ohme with a commando plug. this will be rated at 32A and give you a higher charging capacity.

BUT you should also consider yourself lucky. Landlords have to comply to regs (normally) and show they have the electrics and gas tested. (I know not all do but reputable ones do this).
As such their household electrics will be up to scratch. In addition the testing if done properly does a resistance test (Megohms measured) so it usually picks up where there is poor connections and reports a fault... but no everyone does this and most houses havent had electrics touched since they were put in during the build.

When I moved into my house 10 years ago, the electrics where shockingly (pun intended) bad... we could have had a house fire and killed people because of several major problems... a spur on 1mm cable which is rated a 7Amps connecting a twin socket so capable of drawing 26 amps tops (not gonna happen but 13 amps not unreasonable). Cables cut and connected with a twist and tape; multiple circuits in the kitchen including sockets connected to the lighting circuit (which wasnt protected by an RCD... to name a few.

You are clearly able to support the load on your circuit but not everyone is. And as I said... the heat isnt just on the socket the ohme plugs into... it can be anywhere on the circuit!

BUT honestly look at goning commando... you may find it benificial if you are in the house for a few more years.
On of the youtubers does reviews of charge points and tests everything from commando sockets as it means they dont need to do a full installation.
Commando socket and MATTE will be super safe for you...
 

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ID.4 1st edition (previously Mitsubishi outlander PHEV)
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just to be clear... feleling the plug with the ohme conected wont be a problem... this is all drawing at the correct rate and so wont get warn,
It is usually the cables that get warm... see link related to extension leads earlier as to a common problem... but the ohme again will be fine. its the cables and connections in the wall and the wall sockets which are part of the ring main.
BUT as I said... given you've had a test they should have put a meter on the circuits and so they know it is fine.

To your origional point... VW have done a good thing in enabling the car to limit the charge... havent seen it mentioned anywhere before. (or heard anyone else doing this)
Its a good thing to recommend people to use this IF they havent had a test and inspect on the property to check their electrics are up to scratch OR if they want to use an extension lead (which I dont recommend).
 

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ID.4 1st edition (previously Mitsubishi outlander PHEV)
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oh forgot to say... my Brother in Law owns a company installing EV charge points in Northern Ireland.,, I wish I was allowed to share the photos he has of the consequence of bad electrics and charge points... some of the stuff is scary.
And there is a post (I think of this site) where someone had a garage fire due to the bad electrics. CHeck the forum on here re home installations... there is even stuff on the commando option.
 

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ID.4 1st edition (previously Mitsubishi outlander PHEV)
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found the link re the fire...
 

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It is also handy if you have solar - turning the charge current down may mean that you can get all the power from solar, running at maximum current may mean that you need to pull some power from the grid as well.

(This is what I do)
Just reading through these comment and I was wondering if this would work, does it reduce the minimum amount you have to export to charger? I have zappi
 

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ID.4 1st edition (previously Mitsubishi outlander PHEV)
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Just reading through these comment and I was wondering if this would work, does it reduce the minimum amount you have to export to charger? I have zappi
Yes it works and several chargers manage this process, the most well known being Zappi, but they are not the only ones.

The car has a minimum power requirements I think around 1.3kWh anything lower and it wont charge.
There is a CT clamp around the main power from the grid. If it sense more that 1.3kWh export it chargers the car from solar, else it doesnt.
You can then add tricks around scheduling, so you charge from the grid at night and excess power in the day.
And you can have it top up the solar with grid to a certain amounts, say up to 40% being grid and 60% solar which means you can allow for clouds going over and still charge.

It does work and many people using this. (including me!)
 

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Yes it works and several chargers manage this process, the most well known being Zappi, but they are not the only ones.

The car has a minimum power requirements I think around 1.3kWh anything lower and it wont charge.
There is a CT clamp around the main power from the grid. If it sense more that 1.3kWh export it chargers the car from solar, else it doesnt.
You can then add tricks around scheduling, so you charge from the grid at night and excess power in the day.
And you can have it top up the solar with grid to a certain amounts, say up to 40% being grid and 60% solar which means you can allow for clouds going over and still charge.

It does work and many people using this. (including me!)
Thanks mate that鈥檚 great, I see you have id4 - mines coming next week and I have a zappi, solar and a givenergy hybrid with battery so will be having a play soon!! Thanks for replying馃憤馃徎
 
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