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Renault Zoe Intens Q210 22kw 2013
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am considering having a go at trying to remove the projector lens inside my Zoe's headlights (Zoe 2013 with projector headlights and H7 halogen bulbs) - good idea or bad idea?

The lens part seem very black and 'foggy' / 'bloomed' and I think this is impacting the brightness of the lights.

I realise this might throw the headlight alignment out , but there are adjustments at the back of each headlight.

I wonder if anyone else has tried removing the projector lens glass from the back of theirs? - how did they do it and how did they get on or getting on with it?
 

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Renault Zoe Intens Q210 22kw 2013
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
It will completely ruin the beam focus, dazzle oncoming drivers, and would be an illegal modification.
Surmising? - predicting? guessing? or is it something you have done yourself in real life and found out?

many headlights on cars don't have projector lens in them at all
 

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Surmising? - predicting? guessing? or is it something you have done yourself in real life and found out?

many headlights on cars don't have projector lens in them at all
If you even question this, it conforms you have nil understanding of the physics and certification.

RunningStrong gas tried to help you out. Just follow his advice, don't question it.
 

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Renault Zoe ZE50 Intens R135
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Hi!
It's a bad idea to remove the lens. The parabolic reflector and lens are designed to work together in controlling the spread of the beam.
You will almost certainly blind oncoming traffic or shine light on a useless piece of road without the lens.

Also AFAIK it is illegal in most european countries to modify the lighting system on a vehicle without re-homologation.

I've had a similar issue on my old Megane with projector lamps. After 5 years or so the lights became awfully dim, almost undrivable at night.
When I took them apart (fiddly job) I've found there were 2 issues. One was dust deposited on the lens and reflector. Easy enough to clean but not much gained. The other was that the reflector was 'burnt'. The heat from the bulb had destroyed the reflective coating. I tried replacing the projector with some after market universal projectors, but the improvement was marginal. In the end I replaced the whole headlight when parts became cheap enough.
 

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Also some condenser lenses in headlamps have a fresnel surface on the inner side resulting in what looks like a milky effect from the outside, this is as designed and cannot be removed, it’s the way the headlamp is designed.
 

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Zoe R110
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Was there some misunderstanding by people there, or is it me?
I assumed Andy wasn't just going to remove the lens and leave it that. Getting them out to clean them and the refitting them seems a perfectly reasonable question to me.
He is right that it "might" affect the alignment but I'd put money on they were designed to be build by the simplest machine/people so the location of the lens in the housing is going to be pretty much fixed.
Of course if you do intend to just remove the lens and throw it away......yeah, don't do that. That WILL make the usefulness of the lamp utter crap not just for other road users but for yourself.

However, I think you've already found out they are all bonded together in a big lump so you are probably going to end up breaking parts to get them apart. I have looked in the past but my lens weren't that bad so I gave up. Quoted over £600 for two new front lights, that was a hard, pass !

I'd suggest getting a second hand unit and trying on that if you think it is bad. A quick look on ebay and even the cheapest one £50 and that has broken mounts! Blimey.
 
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Renault Zoe Intens Q210 22kw 2013
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Hi!
It's a bad idea to remove the lens. The parabolic reflector and lens are designed to work together in controlling the spread of the beam.
You will almost certainly blind oncoming traffic or shine light on a useless piece of road without the lens.

Also AFAIK it is illegal in most european countries to modify the lighting system on a vehicle without re-homologation.

I've had a similar issue on my old Megane with projector lamps. After 5 years or so the lights became awfully dim, almost undrivable at night.
When I took them apart (fiddly job) I've found there were 2 issues. One was dust deposited on the lens and reflector. Easy enough to clean but not much gained. The other was that the reflector was 'burnt'. The heat from the bulb had destroyed the reflective coating. I tried replacing the projector with some after market universal projectors, but the improvement was marginal. In the end I replaced the whole headlight when parts became cheap enough.
thankyou that was very helpful, I wondered how the lens focused the light to the ground . i see now from that diagram that the shield then reflects the light to the back of the headlight reflector then - there wouldnt be another diagram like that when the shield is lowered somewhere would there be can you point be too?

Also some condenser lenses in headlamps have a fresnel surface on the inner side resulting in what looks like a milky effect from the outside, this is as designed and cannot be removed, it’s the way the headlamp is designed.
ah yes maybe that bloom on mine is what I am seeing then and not dirt or discolouring then from the bulb. - maybe a diffuser or something rather than clear to spread the light?

Have you tried just changing the bulbs? They do age over time.
I have tried changing the H7 to LED but not much improvement in light thrown on the road if any ... in fact I thought maybe the halogen bulbs actually looked brighter than the LED bulbs ... and then again there are legality problems isnt there putting LED bulbs in a headlamp unit that is supposed to have halogen bulbs fitted isnt there? - I also got a set of halogen uprated to 100w a piece instead of 55w and they were a lot bright but ended up taking them out just in case they were overloading the wires and connector or blinding other road users because they were more powerful .

Was there some misunderstanding by people there, or is it me?
I assumed Andy wasn't just going to remove the lens and leave it that. Getting them out to clean them and the refitting them seems a perfectly reasonable question to me.
He is right that it "might" affect the alignment but I'd put money on they were designed to be build by the simplest machine/people so the location of the lens in the housing is going to be pretty much fixed.
Of course if you do intend to just remove the lens and throw it away......yeah, don't do that. That WILL make the usefulness of the lamp utter crap not just for other road users but for yourself.

However, I think you've already found out they are all bonded together in a big lump so you are probably going to end up breaking parts to get them apart. I have looked in the past but my lens weren't that bad so I gave up. Quoted over £600 for two new front lights, that was a hard, pass !

I'd suggest getting a second hand unit and trying on that if you think it is bad. A quick look on ebay and even the cheapest one £50 and that has broken mounts! Blimey.
No, sorry it was an idea to try and take them out altogether and just test and see what would happen so people were correct they did get me right. - I can hear a 'clunk' on my Zoe when I put the main beams on so looking at that diagram it does look like indeed the headlamps do have a shutter/reflector when I only have dipped beams on and its only 1 55w h7 single filament bulb per side so it does look like the shutter on dipped does indeed reflect the light onto the back of the lens .
 

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Renault Zoe Intens Q210 22kw 2013
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
so , taking into account that the actual shield bounces back the reflection of the bulb back onto the rear of the headlamp reflector and then down onto the road would the pattern all be out if the glass projector lens was removed because the beam of light is still bouncing at the back of the headlamps when the shield is up when the headlights are in dipped beam mode? or does the projector lens act like a prism and point/concentrate the beam of light further onto the road?


without projector lens in place:
147275
 

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so , taking into account that the actual shield bounces back the reflection of the bulb back onto the rear of the headlamp reflector and then down onto the road would the pattern all be out if the glass projector lens was removed because the beam of light is still bouncing at the back of the headlamps when the shield is up when the headlights are in dipped beam mode? or does the projector lens act like a prism and point/concentrate the beam of light further onto the road?


without projector lens in place:
View attachment 147275
Look, the light unit is designed and homologated as a single system. You can't for reasons of physics, legality, practicality, inuranceality needle with the design. All you can do is clean if possible and put the best legal bulb in there or replace with a brand new unit or sell the car and get something with better headlights.
 

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Kia e-Niro 2 LR, Seat Mii
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Apart from all that, messing up the optics by removing a lens that's there for a reason will spread the light beam all over the place, resulting in LESS light on the road ahead where you mostly want it.
 

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Zoe R110
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I think you get the point by now but I'll add my own two cents in here.

If you look at the diagram with the lens in place and then very much consider the distances between those parts. The shield is just a bit of black plastic, it is made to just get in the way and specifically not reflect anything.
The lens is gathering all the light from a close distance to the focal point of the reflector and "projecting" it down the road. If you were to take the lens out it would, as Freddym, says make it illegal but from your own personal view point the light would just be scattered from the headlight in all directions. You would get the same amount of light as if you held the bulb in your hand. It will do something but not even remotely enough to drive with. The reflector would not quite double that amount of light, but doubling bugger all (at 10m+) is still not going to help in any meaningful way.

You could do a very simple demonstration to show how bad it would be on your drive. Look at the light pattern on any wall from at least 5m with everything fitted correctly, remembering how you know they look on the road in real operation, then just take the bulb out, whilst still connected and turn it on to see the pattern on the wall (caution it will get hot :) ). You'll notice the pattern is just gone, but more importantly from your point of view, no specific bright spots, the reflector would help but not enough. You'd be better driving on the DRLs


Cleaning and putting it back is one thing, if you can get it out without breaking anything, but removing the lens is going to make it much much worse for you, will piss off everyone on the road and get you an MOT fail for sure.
 

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I think you get the point by now but I'll add my own two cents in here.

If you look at the diagram with the lens in place and then very much consider the distances between those parts. The shield is just a bit of black plastic, it is made to just get in the way and specifically not reflect anything.
The lens is gathering all the light from a close distance to the focal point of the reflector and "projecting" it down the road. If you were to take the lens out it would, as Freddym, says make it illegal but from your own personal view point the light would just be scattered from the headlight in all directions. You would get the same amount of light as if you held the bulb in your hand. It will do something but not even remotely enough to drive with. The reflector would not quite double that amount of light, but doubling bugger all (at 10m+) is still not going to help in any meaningful way.

You could do a very simple demonstration to show how bad it would be on your drive. Look at the light pattern on any wall from at least 5m with everything fitted correctly, remembering how you know they look on the road in real operation, then just take the bulb out, whilst still connected and turn it on to see the pattern on the wall (caution it will get hot :) ). You'll notice the pattern is just gone, but more importantly from your point of view, no specific bright spots, the reflector would help but not enough. You'd be better driving on the DRLs


Cleaning and putting it back is one thing, if you can get it out without breaking anything, but removing the lens is going to make it much much worse for you, will piss off everyone on the road and get you an MOT fail for sure.
With a headlight that dazzling even a half blind cop would pull you over and have a look.
 

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All you might want to try, although it is illegal is to use an HiD conversion kit, I have used these in every projector lamped (halogen bulbed) vehicle we have owned from Mercedes M class to…..well loads of them, a good kit works very well and does not (provided the dip beam aim is correct) dazzle any more than a halogen bulb would, the cut off of a projector lamp assembly is very sharp and accurate, NEVER use an HiD kit on a reflector headlamp assembly as the uncontrolled point source is extremely bad.

As I stated, it is illegal to use an HiD kit or an LED bulb in a headlamp which is not designed for them, but it’s your choice and in my experience a good quality HiD kit works wonders.

The MoT regulations have been tightened up considerably in the past few years regarding this, so if you install it badly or it’s wrongly aimed you’ll get a fail or at worse pulled up and fined.

I repeat again….it is an illegal modification, and what you first proposed is illegal also.
 

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I had HIDS in my Zoe but be warned the "its illegal" brigade will constantly bleat on (I'm kinda of the same view) and secondly it will invariably lead to canbus errors which will result in one of the headlights stopping working due to the volume of errors when the lights first fire. These errors need to be cleared by either an iCarsoft i907 or visiting a dealer. I already had an i907 (it was out before CANZE) so I was able to clear the errors, a certain "high profile" club owner had the same issue and had to visit a dealer (pleading ignorance may work one time).

That said I eventually switched back to incandescent bulbs when I fitted a set of cheap "ULTRA" branded bulbs off ebay, they absolutely peed all over the well established Osram nightbreakers and they don't blow yearly either. I've used these ULTRAs a few times now. Google them.
 

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What is it with people with Zoes wanting to do strange and dangerous modifications to them.

One of the guys on the Facebook group recharged his Zoe A/C system with pure propane.

I despair sometimes
 
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