[kentish zoe]

Not mine but just spotted a year old zoe on autotrader with 144 miles for £9k from a dealer and a couple more under £10K. At this price it has to be a no brainer to get an EV but I would still recomnend a 3 year pcp lease and hope for a new tesla then I wouldn't hold out much hope for private sales of a 3 year old car still tied to a battery lease but there will be bargains to be had by some !!!!

 

[Matt Beard]

Yes, but after you shell out nine or ten grand you still have to pay a hundred pounds or so a month to lease the battery. And so does anyone you sell the car on to, and anyone they sell the car on to, and anyone they sell the car on to... But for the same price you could get a C-Zero or an iOn and own the battery too.

 

[Paul]

But for the same price you could get a C-Zero or an iOn and own the battery too.

Can't tell if you're saying it's a good deal or not?

 

[Matt Beard]

The C-Zero is not bad, but a bit small and the range could be better.

 

[Buzby]

If you take the contract lease for the battery, you budget that cost, which is finite. Your term dictates that cost, as to whether the leasing company will actually recover it (at their expense!) it open to conjecture. At least you know your battery will be maintained.

 

[Matt Beard]

If you take the contract lease for the battery, you budget that cost, which is finite. Your term dictates that cost, as to whether the leasing company will actually recover it (at their expense!) it open to conjecture. At least you know your battery will be maintained.

Not sure what you mean. The lease has to be renewed as soon as it ends or Renault remotely disable your car. Effectively the battery lease lasts for the entire life of the car. This means when a Zoe is old enough to be in a layby with "fUr saIL" on a cardboard sign, the seller will still need to do all the paperwork to credit check the new owner, then transfer the lease.

 

[Buzby]

There's no 'effectively'. Your contract is fixed term (mine is 3 years) after 36 months, we either agree a new term and rate, or they take their property back. They would be foolish to assume the user would feel obliged to let it roll over for the same money. I'm in the process of sourcing a replacement battery pack, so Renault are entitled to collect it from me by appointment and at my convenience. Any talk of remotely disabling the vehicle would leave them open to civil action - I seriously doubt they would be stupid enough to routinely attempt this.

As for the seller - his responsibility is to his agreement. A purchaser, if buying the car is not asked or notified of the need for a battery payment, they have good title and Renault can whistle, or pursue the original buyer.

 

[kentish zoe]

Yes, but after you shell out nine or ten grand you still have to pay a hundred pounds or so a month to lease the battery. And so does anyone you sell the car on to, and anyone they sell the car on to, and anyone they sell the car on to... But for the same price you could get a C-Zero or an iOn and own the battery too.

I think you may have missed the bit about LEASING the car, you never have to worry about selling the car or shelling out eight grand for a new battery . All your costs are known.

 

[Eunicholas]

Yes, but after you shell out nine or ten grand you still have to pay a hundred pounds or so a month to lease the battery. And so does anyone you sell the car on to, and anyone they sell the car on to, and anyone they sell the car on to... But for the same price you could get a C-Zero or an iOn and own the battery too.

Lol £100. I pay £45 for 3k 6.5k for £70 £83 for 10500 miles, and if the battery ever goes wrong it's there problem
And you get free breakdown.

 

[Buzby]

Yep - that's my take too. Just imagine the furore too if the car was disabled remotely whilst on a motorway on making a manoeuvre? It you were really worried, just remove the SIM card. That said, your only issue would be when taking it in for a service.

 

[kentish zoe]

Yep - that's my take too. Just imagine the furore too if the car was disabled remotely whilst on a motorway on making a manoeuvre? It you were really worried, just remove the SIM card. That said, your only issue would be when taking it in for a service.

It will be interesting to see Renault's stance in 3 years but my guess is they will just hand them over to owners or offer a free upgrade to new 1000 mile range battery at same lease cost . But my point of the post was that ev's are becoming comparably priced with ice cars which I find promising.

 

[Edd Beesley]

Yes the second hand Zoe's are nearly cheap enough that they make sense as a second/low use car.

 

[Matt Beard]

It will be interesting to see Renault's stance in 3 years but my guess is they will just hand them over to owners or offer a free upgrade to new 1000 mile range battery at same lease cost . But my point of the post was that ev's are becoming comparably priced with ice cars which I find promising.

I think there is more chance of pigs flying than Renault giving the batteries away after three years. They may offer the same options as a new car for continued leasing, or they may have cheaper options (though I doubt it) but they may also bump the prices up quite a bit justifying it by the fact that they no longer sell the Zoe and maintaining the older models costs more.

 

[Matt Beard]

As for the seller - his responsibility is to his agreement. A purchaser, if buying the car is not asked or notified of the need for a battery payment, they have good title and Renault can whistle, or pursue the original buyer.

This isn't the way the law works! The battery pack does not belong to you, so you are breaking the law if you attempt to sell it. You are entitled to sell the "shell" and to arrange for the battery lease to be transferred, but you have to make it clear to the purchaser exactly what they are buying. In fact if the law worked as you outline, people could rent a car from Hertz and sell it and Hertz would not be able to get it back!

 

[smartie]

A Gen 1 Leaf would make more sense - they are becoming available for under £10k with no requirement for ongoing battery lease payments, and the battery and drivetrain still covered by the 5 year warranty

 

[kentish zoe]

Not really in renault's interest to destroy residual values or of any benefit to them to get a shed load of redundant batteries back. But because people can't quite understand the system that is exactly why I recommend a lease with the option to hand car back. Either way as @smartie says it will bring down the price of the leaf if you don't mind taking a chance on a huge outlay for a new battery in 3 years time. (Or can you get an aftermarket warranty to cover that ???)

I think there is more chance of pigs flying than Renault giving the batteries away after three years. They may offer the same options as a new car for continued leasing, or they may have cheaper options (though I doubt it) but they may also bump the prices up quite a bit justifying it by the fact that they no longer sell the Zoe and maintaining the older models costs more.

 

[Buzby]

This isn't the way the law works! The battery pack does not belong to you, so you are breaking the law if you attempt to sell it. You are entitled to sell the "shell" and to arrange for the battery lease to be transferred, but you have to make it clear to the purchaser exactly what they are buying. In fact if the law worked as you outline, people could rent a car from Hertz and sell it and Hertz would not be able to get it back!

I know how the law 'works'. There is no issue for the purchaser who unknowingly provides full payment for the vehicle for everything from the air in the tyres to the battery

What the seller is entitled to do is an irrelevance here. It is the sellers responsibility alone to protect their interests (provided there was no collusion with the buyer). However, any battery cost loss is the sole responsibility of the seller, who will be the fall guy should RCI be in the ball (and there is debate that this is an impossibility).

So, if the seller does not arrange the transfer, and prevent the sale until the buyer completes the paperwork and transfer the lease - it is a non issue for the buyer who has done nothing wrong.

I can point you to Motorpoint who have sold on EVs to new owners without any lease being signed, to no detriment of the new owner.

 

[Matt Beard]

I know how the law 'works'. There is no issue for the purchaser who unknowingly provides full payment for the vehicle for everything from the air in the tyres to the battery

My understanding is that what you say is true for hire purchase (as the car is being bought by the original owner) but not for leased vehicles. The key fact is who the legal owner of the property is. With hire purchase the legal owner is the purchaser, but there is a loan taken as part of the deal. With a lease the owner is the leasing company and attempting to sell it is a form of theft, although I believe that it now comes under the Fraud Act 2006.

 

[Buzby]

No - it would be perverse to suggest that protections exist for HP but not for leasing - the issue is what the buyer thought. It was his purchase after all. If he did due diligence with an a HPI check and it was clear, he has even less to worry about.

I do refer to Scots Law - I've no idea what happens south of the border, which invariably is less disposed to individuals.

I see no relevance to theft here - only fraud. Providing the purchaser with good title leaves the leasing company the ability to pursue their original client. I have lost count of the number of drivers who have tried to be pursued and accept terms imposed, and when properly represented have been able to challenge these attempts in the Scottish. courts.

The risk to the seller is considerably greater. I'm unsure whether Motorpoint have banned the resale of EV's as a result of this 'problem' but I know of 2 happy owners who have a lease-free Renault and no lease to pay. Still, my £77pm payment is still seen by me as good value - especially as a I don't pay for petrol.

 

[Matt Beard]

This morning I searched out the Renault battery Lease agreement and found that neither of us seems to be 100% correct. The text is here and shows that they have included specific clauses for the sale of the vehicle and that it adds a couple of specific items:

1) You are obliged to inform any purchaser of the battery lease;
2) If you sell to a private individual then you give the name and address of that individual to Renault who them send them an invitation to take over the lease. Until this invitation is taken up you are still obliged to make payments. If for some reason the purchaser does not take on the lease you are stuck with payments until the original end date of the lease.
3) If you sell to a motor trader you must send proof of the sale and details of the trader to Renault who then terminate the lease and make some sort of arrangement with the trader*
4) If the lease ends for any reason (such as the end of the original term, or a breash of anything above) and another lease is not started, Renault disable the pack by instructing it to not allow any more recharging#

* If the agreement with the trader includes the ability for the trader to buy the pack and sell the car as a whole, we need to know as there are lots of people that want a Renault EV, but not a battery lease!

# I suspect that removing the SIM from the car will cause the car to disable the battery. You may be given a short "grace period" to cope with things like network outages.