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Discussion Starter #1
Hi everyone,

Have there been cases where the main traction battery had to be replaced due to battery failure or degradation under either the 8 year warranty or the battery lease? In other words, how likely/unlikely is it that an owner would need substantial work done or a replacement?

Keen to hear from anyone with the stats or first hand experience, thanks.
 

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Renault Zoe 50
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It's a very rare occurrence, normally due to a faulty module, as opposed to wholesale battery degradation.

For instance one of the dealers on here that sells a lot of Zoes only knows of one pack that's been replaced under warranty.

Once guy in France got his pack replaced under the leased battery scheme:

 

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My first Zoe 22kWh (2016) had to go back after only 2 weeks from brand new to have the traction battery replaced. After that, I had no problems with its replacement.
 

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In common with most owners, I've not had any battery problems on my late 2014, 22 kWh battery. My car has done 51K miles and I haven't noticed any appreciable loss of range.
 

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Nissan LEAF30
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The level of degredation required to trigger a claim under the guarantee or the lease is so large that it's virtually unknown for either to be claimed on. Apart from faulty new units (which may be related to the controls in the pack rather than the cells) as stated above very few have been changed, and when they are it is with remanufactured units which consist of good secondhand cells, not new ones. If you check the terms of the contracts it is only to maintain capacity above a figure, not a new for old replacement.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Thanks for the replies. If you plan to buy back the battery, which is now offered, it is necessary to weigh up the future rental payments for the liklihood that the battery will fail in the future and the resulting costs. For a 2013/4 age model I understand that the buyback cost is around UKP3000. That relates to about 2-3y rental cost.

Has the buyback scheme been popular with older Zoe's?
 

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Nissan LEAF30
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Don't forget that there's an exit cost to the battery lease if you scrap the car as you have to physically return the battery to RCI.
 

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The above is a good point, the risk in having an older Zoe with a leased battery is that if the car has an issue and isn’t worth repairing then it will cost you money to give the battery back !

I’ve looked into this and RCI advised that if you want to scrap a battery lease Zoe you have to transport it to a dealer for the battery to be removed, and take the shell away afterwards. If you coincide this with the renewal of your battery lease agreement then the battery removal is free but if it’s mid lease then it will cost you about £2,500! That’s to cover battery removal and shipping to France.

Cheers
 

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@G.a.r.y How long do people sign up to leases for? £2,500 sounds a lot of months of payments.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I don't get why the battery lease cost is not proportional to the age of the battery, as the battery is always decreasing in value. Someone with a 7yo car & battery shouldn't be having to pay the same as someone with a new car & battery. Did they not follow this model because the initial rental payments would have been just too high?
 

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They are providing the same service regardless of the age of the battery. I suspect that they averaged the costs out over an expected lifetime for the battery with the expectation that they would balance out those who ended the lease early with the ones that did so late. The buy out costs for the lease do decrease however.
 

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In February, at 25,000 miles / 40,000 km, my daughter's 22kWh 2015 Q210 Zoe (43kW charger) was showing a battery State of Health/ SoH of 70% using an OBD / OnBoard Diagnostics dongle combined with the CanZE app. This meant a range of 47 to 60 miles in temperatures from -5 C to +10 C. I then took the car to a Renault garage for a Battery Management System / BMS update. Result: battery SoH was restored to 98% equal to a 40% improvement. The range improved accordingly, increasing the range in mixed, non-motorway driving to as much as 90 miles / 144 km. For peace of mind, not least if you're buying a second-hand Renault Zoe, invest £15 in an OBD (mine's a Konnwei KW902). Download the CanZE app onto your smartphone (remember to select [name of OBD] as "Remote device" in the app Settings), enable bluetooth, insert the OBD into the port underneath the "floormat" in the small tray in front of the gear selector and press the right-hand button on the OBD, select "Charging" on page 2 of the app and wait for CanZe to read and show the data. Press the car start button if the app doesn't start reading/displaying. My conclusion is that, after 5 years with plenty of charging to 100% battery capacity ( recommended max. is 80% if not using the car immediately), the 22kWh battery has suffered minimal capacity loss. It proves that, while not as sophisticated as the liquid-cooled system of e.g. Tesla and Hyundai/Niro, the Zoe's air-cooling of the battery is sufficient to maintain its health. Armed with my OBD dongle, I would not hesitate to buy a second-hand Zoe because of battery worries once I had satisfied myself that the battery was in a good SoH.[/QUOTE]
 

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Zoe Devotee
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In February, at 25,000 miles / 40,000 km, my daughter's 22kWh 2015 Q210 Zoe (43kW charger) was showing a battery State of Health/ SoH of 70% using an OBD / OnBoard Diagnostics dongle combined with the CanZE app. This meant a range of 47 to 60 miles in temperatures from -5 C to +10 C. I then took the car to a Renault garage for a Battery Management System / BMS update. Result: battery SoH was restored to 98% equal to a 40% improvement. The range improved accordingly, increasing the range in mixed, non-motorway driving to as much as 90 miles / 144 km. For peace of mind, not least if you're buying a second-hand Renault Zoe, invest £15 in an OBD (mine's a Konnwei KW902). Download the CanZE app onto your smartphone (remember to select [name of OBD] as "Remote device" in the app Settings), enable bluetooth, insert the OBD into the port underneath the "floormat" in the small tray in front of the gear selector and press the right-hand button on the OBD, select "Charging" on page 2 of the app and wait for CanZe to read and show the data. Press the car start button if the app doesn't start reading/displaying. My conclusion is that, after 5 years with plenty of charging to 100% battery capacity ( recommended max. is 80% if not using the car immediately), the 22kWh battery has suffered minimal capacity loss. It proves that, while not as sophisticated as the liquid-cooled system of e.g. Tesla and Hyundai/Niro, the Zoe's air-cooling of the battery is sufficient to maintain its health. Armed with my OBD dongle, I would not hesitate to buy a second-hand Zoe because of battery worries once I had satisfied myself that the battery was in a good SoH.
[/QUOTE]

98% Wow you don't say! Seems everyone that had BMS got this magical 98%. Of course it doesn't last. When I owned my Zoe it it had gone down to mid 80s SOH, BMS automagically made it 98% again and it slowly but surely dropped down to 90% when it was traded it (although during the months before trade it it had dropped as low as 86% before bouncing to 96% and eventually settling at 90% on my last loading on CANZE on the morning of trade in).
 

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Discussion Starter #15
In February, at 25,000 miles / 40,000 km, my daughter's 22kWh 2015 Q210 Zoe (43kW charger) was showing a battery State of Health/ SoH of 70% using an OBD / OnBoard Diagnostics dongle combined with the CanZE app. This meant a range of 47 to 60 miles in temperatures from -5 C to +10 C. I then took the car to a Renault garage for a Battery Management System / BMS update. Result: battery SoH was restored to 98% equal to a 40% improvement. The range improved accordingly, increasing the range in mixed, non-motorway driving to as much as 90 miles / 144 km. For peace of mind, not least if you're buying a second-hand Renault Zoe, invest £15 in an OBD (mine's a Konnwei KW902). Download the CanZE app onto your smartphone (remember to select [name of OBD] as "Remote device" in the app Settings), enable bluetooth, insert the OBD into the port underneath the "floormat" in the small tray in front of the gear selector and press the right-hand button on the OBD, select "Charging" on page 2 of the app and wait for CanZe to read and show the data. Press the car start button if the app doesn't start reading/displaying. My conclusion is that, after 5 years with plenty of charging to 100% battery capacity ( recommended max. is 80% if not using the car immediately), the 22kWh battery has suffered minimal capacity loss. It proves that, while not as sophisticated as the liquid-cooled system of e.g. Tesla and Hyundai/Niro, the Zoe's air-cooling of the battery is sufficient to maintain its health. Armed with my OBD dongle, I would not hesitate to buy a second-hand Zoe because of battery worries once I had satisfied myself that the battery was in a good SoH.
[/QUOTE]


It is interesting that after the BMS update bothe the SOH as well as the real life range increased. I have only read other cases where the SOH magically increased to 98pc but the performance remained the same.
 

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I assume the bms on my 2015 car 57k miles is up to date and I've monitored the SOH for the past year. The lowest I've ever seen it is 94%, today it shows 98% with a full charge showing 104 miles. Interesting.
 

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I can't see how the BMS would know that there was more energy available but wouldn't increase the range. Isn't that the whole point of it?

And I'm not sure why people are surprised that a battery's SOH declines over time. FYI - every Lithium-ion battery ever made degrades over time. Why should your's be any different?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Update:

I have now been using the Konwei bluetooth dongle and CanZE app for the past month now. Interestingly, the battery SOH was at 78%. Then after a few weeks it mysteriously increased to 79% and yesterday it showed 80%.

How can this be explained? Anecdotally the weather here has steadily increased over the last month. Yesterday it was about 27C.

Any ideas for the increase in a figure that should only go in the other direction??
 

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Renault Zoe 50
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How can this be explained? Anecdotally the weather here has steadily increased over the last month. Yesterday it was about 27C.

Any ideas for the increase in a figure that should only go in the other direction??
Because it’s just an estimate based on what the BMS can read. Temperature makes the cells more efficient, so that may be the reason.
 

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So if you want the pack replaced wait until winter.
 
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