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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am in the process of rejecting my Zoe as it does not have AC and heat together, which I want, need, expect and require.

After initially confirming it 'COULD' do this, Renault UK have now retracted this and said;-


From: UK Reply Renault <[email protected]>
Sent: 01 February 2021 12:32
To: donald
Subject:
RE: Complaint Ref - 2002876

Thank you for your emails dated 29 January 2021.

I am sorry you are not happy with the response.

Renault UK has already confirmed there are no manufacturing defects found with your ZOE, therefore we are unable to support your rejection request.

Renault UK can confirm, you are unable to use the AC or Heating at the same time on your ZOE. Neither the brochure or the manual states you can use both the heater and AC at the same time.



If you want to reference that complaint ref, feel free, that's why I included it.

Renault UK say "Renault UK can confirm, you are unable to use the AC or Heating at the same time on your ZOE. ", however, hey, what does THIS say?;-

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The brochure even has the temerity to say 'what's the purpose of innovation if it doesn't offer tangible benefit?' and I couldn't agree more. So why am I having to drive around in my 15 year old diesel van that DOES have AC and heat together, to avoid the migraines I get from being in a too-humid location?

and when do you ever need to demist your vehicle when it is warm and you don't need any heat?;-

140365



RCI are following suit to what Renault are telling them, so looks like I will be going to court on this one with RCI as they are the ones I am paying for this.
 

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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
English comprehension time.

Where does it say in the manual that the AC system can provide heat and cooling at the same time?
It says it eliminates condensation more quickly.

English comprehension time;- When do you get condensation when it is warm enough not to need a heater?

I get in, I put heat on, I have condensation .. now .. where is that AC? It says it can do this.
 

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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
You would have thought that if someone wanted a particular function, they'd have either asked initially or checked on a test ride.
It was not possible to tell this until September. I got the car in June and the Ac worked fine.

Your point is bogus, one may not know if a car works all year around until one has driven it all year around, and no-one seems to be offering test drives that long, funnily enough.

Also, I DID ask, and Renault DID say it ran both;


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From: UK Reply Renault <[email protected]>
Sent: 25 September 2020 12:07

With regards to the AC and heater, I have confirmation you can run both at the same time. You can have the AC on while you have it turned to hot/warm/28 degrees. It will circulate the warm air around the vehicle as it would cold air. I hope this answers your question.
 

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It's a fairly obvious limitation of using a single heat pump for both heating and cooling: it cannot do both at the same time. Relative humidity decreases as temperature increases anyway, so I'm struggling to understand what the real problem is. Just make sure you turn off recirculation and the air should be dry enough once it's warm.
 

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It was not possible to tell this until September. I got the car in June and the Ac worked fine.

Your point is bogus, one may not know if a car works all year around until one has driven it all year around, and no-one seems to be offering test drives that long, funnily enough.

Also, I DID ask, and Renault DID say it ran both;


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From: UK Reply Renault <[email protected]>
Sent: 25 September 2020 12:07

With regards to the AC and heater, I have confirmation you can run both at the same time. You can have the AC on while you have it turned to hot/warm/28 degrees. It will circulate the warm air around the vehicle as it would cold air. I hope this answers your question.
You’d need to have asked before buying to have the ability to reject it, realistically.
 

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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
It's a fairly obvious limitation of using a single heat pump for both heating and cooling: it cannot do both at the same time. Relative humidity decreases as temperature increases anyway, so I'm struggling to understand what the real problem is. Just make sure you turn off recirculation and the air should be dry enough once it's warm.
But it can. It is patented to do both. It is not a reversible system, it is controlled by pressure differentials, not flow. The working fluid is meant to pass via the evaporator (cools) and then with the heat it has picked up can be pumped directly into the condenser (heat) to deliver both functions at the same time.

In fact, it is incredibly efficient to do that because residual heat being taken 'from' the cabin air in the process of dehumidification is not lost to the outside. So it is more efficient that simply sucking in cold dry air from outside and then reheating it.
 

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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
You’d need to have asked before buying to have the ability to reject it, realistically.
A contract drawn up whilst hiding the truth from a consumer is not a contract formed, the consumer could never have reasonably formed the contract. It is like the contract never existed in law, this is not a 'rejection' due to a defect that has arisen.

As the Renault reply reveals, saying it can do this, I could never have been informed on this point as Renault themselves did not know. If Renault themselves could not provide all the information I needed to form the contract, as evidenced by that email, I can't see how the contract could have been properly formed.

If they had said 'no, it can't do this' as soon as I discovered it and they said that is the way it is meant to be, they might be able to argue your point. In the circumstances, I struggle to see how they can argue it.
 

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I'm not crazy, the attack has begun.
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Let me pose a question for you guys.

If you got a car and it couldn't do more than 50mph when the temperature was below 10C, and you only discovered this in winter when the temperature dropped to that low, would you have grounds for rejection, and if so, why?
 

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Let me pose a question for you guys.

If you got a car and it couldn't do more than 50mph when the temperature was below 10C, and you only discovered this in winter when the temperature dropped to that low, would you have grounds for rejection, and if so, why?
That’s definitely the same as not being able to use AC and heat at the same time 😂. Definitely.
 

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I think @donald may have a case.

However he's going to need to employ the services of a technical lab to gather the evidence.

I'd be happy to lend him my Zoe as a reference car - pretty sure it does heat and AC at the same time as it clears the windscreen beautifully.

Flights to BCN are cheap right now, but you will need residency to get here.
 

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This is the first car I have ever had where AC does not work with heat. It is the only car I have ever heard of with this design defect.
Most cars have an internal combustion engine. The cabin heater uses waste heat from the engine. The AC is an entirely separate system. The effect of this is that you can run both at the same time, but you cannot have heat until the engine has warmed up. Note that the AC system has a limit. It cannot cool beyond the point where the condenser would ice up. Typically an ambient temperature a little above freezing. So on a cold day you can't have AC and heating at the same time.

The Zoe does not have an ICE and the electric motor generates very little heat. So it has an AC system that can "be run backwards" to heat the inside of the car while cooling the outside. It could have been designed to have both a heating and cooling radiator on the inside. This would allow you to both heat and dehumidify at the same time. To not have this feature can't be called a defect. If your dealer told you it could run both at once, you may have been mis-sold your car. But the car is not defective.

On a more constructive note, if you press the windscreen demist button, does it clear the screen?
 

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It says it eliminates condensation more quickly.

English comprehension time;- When do you get condensation when it is warm enough not to need a heater?

I get in, I put heat on, I have condensation .. now .. where is that AC? It says it can do this.
You might just have a fault in your car, such as pooling of water in the HVAC system due to a blocked drain plug, that would be difficult to diagnose and/or fix?
 

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See any post of mine from 2015 onwards where I mentioned heater flip/flop. Zoe has NEVER been able to heat and AC at the same time, by design.
 
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